Re: OT :I find myself agreeing with Conor. What should I do?

Isn't that more than NI contributions, though?

It won't cover you anywhere near as well, either.

Then there's always the little issue of it going up with age and premiums being loaded if you have the audacity to actually need any relatively expensive treatment.

You also have to add pension contributions on top of that and cover for your salary if you have to take any time off work.

Doesn't look like such a bargain now, does it?

Fuck no. It's =A3110 or =A325 a week. I was paying =A340 a week in NI 5 yea= rs=20 ago.

Wanna bet? It'll cover you better. Take A&E. Cos you have to pay for=20 it, it's not clogged full of pissheads looking for somewhere to kip on=20 a Saturday night.

Yes. Lets look at Income Tax for someone living and working in NYC on,=20 say $30,000.

Federal and State Tax comes to 29.4% (Federal+State Income Tax plus =20 Social Security Tax + Medicaid) compared to 31% in the UK (PAYE+NI)=20 HOWEVER the difference in the US is that you can deduct costs from your=20 gross income.

You can deduct for example, permitted moving expenses, the interest on=20 your mortgage, sales tax, local property taxes and STATE INCOME TAX.

Can you imagine how much more you'd have in your pocket out of your=20 wages if you were allowed to take off your mortgage interest, council=20 tax and all the VAT you paid on anything you bought that year off your=20 "Taxable Pay"? Fuck sake, most people would able to knock off at least=20 =A38,000 which would give them another =A32480 in their pocket.

So whilst you have to pay for your medical care (although there is=20 MedicAid if you can't afford it and most employers do health insurance=20 as a perk) and pension (although it's a perk for most jobs) , you get=20 to keep a shitload more of your wages than you do in the UK which more=20 than covers it.

--=20 Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't=20 looking good either. - Scott Adams

Actually there's really no need to pay for healthcare in the US. Even though you move there you're still a UK citizen so if you're really ill and actually need healthcare you just need to take a flight back to the UK and get it for free. Unfortunatelly expats win both ways, don't pay for medical insurance in the country they live in and don't pay NI here but they're still entitled to a free NHS.

Just to add that when you do retire, you get to benefit from all that Social Security Tax you've been paying which would give you a Social Security payment of around $1200 a month which they don't take off you cos you've got a private pension or savings.

Heh, dependent on you being well enough to get on a plane.

The grass is always greener eh Conor? (c:

I doubt many people here would find it easy to up and off to live and work in the USA anyway because of the way immigration controls are there at the moment.

The immigration controls are one reason why I will never visit the USA again. Occasionally I'm tempted, but I just can't be bothered.

Daytona Beach, eh? If you like chocolate, go visit Angel & Phelps the next time you're there. Rather good petit fours and stuff like that.

If you can't get onto the aeroplane you're shot anyway...

You think you're going to get a pension from the Govt??

No; it'll depend on how much you earn.

That depends very much on the plan in question. Besides as Charlie and I have discovered, the British NHS is neither free nor comprehensive.

On the other hand, if you need something doing, it gets done. None of this waiting around for months at a time for a slot to become available. Having experienced waiting around once in our 20s we (Charlie and I) don't want to do this ever again.

Regrettably, her experiences of the NHS (waiting around for 12 months for an operation, during which time her health deteroiated, 5 weeks in hospital during the year), are being repeated everywhere.

The NHS is a great ideal. The execution is going to get progressively harder and harder. By the time you and I are retiring I expect the NHS to be proper knackered. Too few workers paying too high a tax for too many old people in need of medical care. Just like the pensions system.

It's hardly as one sided as you're making out though. You also place a lot of trust in whatever series of Governments are in power.

Is this a case that because you don't get private medical insurance as a benefit through work, you don't see the point in it?

No, I do get private medical insurance.

However, it doesn't give anywhere near the level of cover the NHS does.

Dan and Doug are prime examples of people who would be 'cut loose' by a private provider.

(Sorry for using you as an example, guys, but it's one everyone in here can relate to, IYSWIM)

America is a pretty nice place, mate. If you've got the opportunity, do it! A couple of my friends who now live in Munich came back for a visit lately. They've not been back for 2 years. They howled with laughter at the place.

If I was going to move to the US, I'd choose somewhere on the west coast. America really lucked out with it's geography, there's pretty much everything there. Northern California would be my choice.

Why would they be cut loose?

Do. Sooner rather than later, these things get more difficult as you get older.

Back in 1988 I spent 6 weeks in Memphis on a DC-10 airframe and engine course. My American friends (on a similar salary) all had houses in the country with several acres of land and tractors. I had a 4 bedroom box in a Callands (Warrington) housing estate with a garden like a postage stamp and awaiting mortgage interest of almost 15% :-(

Julian.

Cost of treatment.

Private policies tend not to like people with serious health conditions and many private hospitals don't have the equipment or resources, certainly in the UK, to treat such conditions either.

OK, so the Merkin model is different in that they don't have proper NHS type facilities - but the premiums for anyone under treatment for serious, long-term, life-threatening conditions would be shocking.

Can't comment on the resources part but I'll have to agree with Steve here - the BiL is rather overweight, as is his wife and they had a hell of a time finding health insurance that would cover them at all. They finally did with one of the HMOs (cheaper end of the market, HMOs) and it cost them several multiples of the $220 that are bandied about here. Fortunately she's progressed from a freelancer working for the goverments to a proper employed court translator now so they get health insurance via her at a more affordable rate.

Even basic cover for someone in their late thirties/early forties (ie, my age) tends to be around the $300 mark for someone with no known health issues and goes up considerably as you get older. And I'm pretty sure that this doesn't include dental cover either, but then again nor does the NHS really these days.

Callands eh? (Stockton Heath here). I think Canada is going to be my target, BC or Alberta, ultimately.

I didn't know they were ill. I suppose that does change a lot.