Re: OT :I find myself agreeing with Conor. What should I do?

The reason why they have them is that they're involved in pretty serious crime, though - even if they're not exactly master criminals themselves (yet).

Sweden isn't the UK, either. They have a very different society over there. Ours is much more comparable to the US, in which case, I'm happier with people generally not having legal and easy access to guns.

The UK has it's faults, but it's not so bad that I'd move to America, which has many, many more faults.

You should just move over there, the UK doesn't really need people who hate living here.

No, it's an absolute fact. There was a very good documentary on the box a while ago showing just how dangerous the streets of UK cities are at night, and how safe NY is since it's zero tolerance programme. It flies in the face of your assertion that access to guns turns cities into the wild west. I suspect that you've been watching too many films or reading the Daily Mail.

Julian.

Riiiiight.

'It was on the telly, so it must be true'

Statistics, please. Or it's just as bad as accusing me of reading the Daily Wail.

I'm a Mancunian by birth, and have never felt particularly threatened there. It has some bad areas, as does any big city, but if you stay away from those, it's fine.

It would be a hell of a lot worse if firearms were legally available 'over the counter'.

The fist part is correct: pistols and revolvers are "designed" for distances less than 10m.

But... if the barrel lenght is 4 inch are more, the accuracy of any handgun is around 50m. Standard competition (mainland Europ) is 25m, the "10-points" mark is a circle of 5cm diameter. Swiss competion is at 50m.

Very sorry but untrue: any person using a standard rifle without too much of a recoil will hit a person at 100 ft. If he is allowed to aim while resting the rifle, the shooter will hit -where he want to hit- at distances up to 400 ft.

You don't need to kill with 1 shot: any bullet entering a persons body does some things that the receiver doesn't like and will slow him down. I can imagine that if an bullet impacts near by, that the attacker is less likely to pursue.

Most "small" bullets will fly through the receiving body unless they hit bone. Big bullets (.45 ACP) will delivery their energy where-ever they impact.

Once again I beg to differ. If your criminal comes out a warzone (lets say former Youguslavia) he may have had the best lessons in shooting possible: that of firing while being fired upon.

However even that kind of criminal will like his victim without a gun.

Tom De Moor

Actually, no. Personal protection is always cited as a reason amongst young ethnic minorities.

I don't hate living here, I'd just rather live there or Canada or New Zealand.

Not at all - it's just "selective".

You stand more chance of winning the lottery.

Sorry, you need to provide statistics if you're going to prove *your* point.

One media source is as bad as any other.

Nah, you can find them for yourself, that's your prerogative. I'm happy to trust a seemingly well researched documentry on the telly and I tell you what, I wouldn't venture onto the streets of a UK city at night on my tod come chucking out time.

I don't think you are correct. As I said earlier, New York does not become the wild west at night, I think you should provide some stats to back up your claims...

Julian.

And why do they 'need' that protection?

Mostly because they associate with the criminal fraternity.

You've posted a lot of 'grass is always greener' stuff regarding the US in recent times, which suggests you're not happy with your lot over here.

Mind you, given where you live, it's hardly a surprise.

'Made up on the spot based on a TV show'

I'd move to Alaska. S'nice there. Mind you, all my friends and family are here, so unless they moved there too, I wouldn't like it.

So I guess you don't like bows either...

My point is that the energy in a flying bullet is around 1.500 J (end- of-mussle-energy of a .223 Remington-round), the energy in a 1500 kg car travelling at 90 kph is about 150 times higher.

While cars are not specifically engineered to kill people, fact is that they kill and injure far more people than guns.

In fact you could easily claim that guns are not good killers at all: there are far better better things for that purpose, far cheaper too.

Tom De Moor

I'm still planning to be out of here in the next 2 years. Looking forwards to it as well.

Much as I'd hate to have to disagree with you..... but, you have relatively sane plans for 'getting out of here' based on numerous relatively lengthy visits and a t'other half from there.

As opposed to the usual British decision to move abroad which is based on a 2 week holiday in the sun, with spending fuelled by a favourable exchange rate.

I'm amazed at how many people appear on daytime telly where they've decided to move the entire family because somewhere was a nice place to go on holiday.

A large proportion of them move back, once they realise that life isn't so great when you're earning local wages.

It's much easier to rob someone at gunpoint than it is from behind the wheel of your car.

Because that's the likelihood in Manchester isn't it?

Nope - I've just posted some figures from the official statistics...they're a bit shocking. TBH, they were worse than I was expecting.

They don't - it's in their heads.

Wrong.

Exactly. Doesn't mean I hate it though.

It's far better than large swathes of the UK.