Europe Loves The Mustang

I don't have to use google, Chief. China has NO Submarine status at all. They have ONE submarine missile boat called the Xia. This submarine has never been more than a harbor queen. In it's entire existence it has deployed ONCE to test fire a submarine launch missile. The rest of it's existence its sat in it's home port at Jianggezhuang. They have 18 ICBM's with questionable capability of reaching the US considering their long history of design flight failures. Their surface navy is a joke. Nothing better than a destroyer sized force with cruise missiles. Two years ago they sent their first surface ship on it's first around the world cruise. ONCE. Our attack submarines could wipe out their entire navy probably before they left Chinese territorial waters. They have little ASW capabilities to track our subs. Bombers and planes? None that can reach the US. The Chinese have no force projection outside of their territorial region. And China will never be a Hyperpower without a global force projection of power.

To recap:

1. China has no credible ballistic submarines. The one they have is not operational.
2. China has 18 ICBM's with questionable capabilities.
3. China has a surface Navy with no aircraft carriers other than the one they bought from Russia and they've done nothing with it. They don't even have planes to go on the carrier. They have destroyers and frigates with old technology.
4. China has no strategic nuclear bomber force. NONE.

You may be retired from the USN but you're an idiot. What were you a Yeoman or a Boatswain's Mate? You don't know anything about nuclear deterrent and it sounds like you really should stick to worrying about setting your Sea and Anchor detail and leaving the details of global strategic defense to the experts.

I posed a military question, a NAVAL question. Obviously you're incapable of responding to the question, Chief Petty Officer.

Whatever Whiskers, whatever

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:06:38 GMT, the guvnor wrote something wonderfully witty:

Wasn't for quality reasons that's for sure. It isn't just the procurement price either, it is the on-going maintenance costs. Expensive as hell to keep most European high-end cars on the road while maintaining the regular maintenance schedule.

Anyhow if you wait around long enough the Japanese will rip-off any innovation you can come up with anyway, improve it and sell it cheaper.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:08:02 GMT, the guvnor wrote something wonderfully witty:

ship back the

Actually that isn't it. It is the same reason they are consuming all the Portland Cement, Timber, re-bar, and other construction materials they can get their hands on. They are in the process of building a series of massive Hydro-Electric projects and cities surrounding them from scratch. This is so they can build and power the factories that they do not currently have in order to produce all the components of the products they mostly only assemble now.

They are also having a tad of a problem with quality in their domestic car market and aren't making many strides in correcting them. I maybe a little off but the average all in cost for Japanese auto worker is ~$60 an hour. A Korean's is ~$22, and a Chinese about ~$2. Right there that ought to tell ya something.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:12:05 GMT, the guvnor wrote something wonderfully witty:

Currencies usually bounce all over the place based on all sorts of reasons both domestic & foreign.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:29:45 -0400, G wrote something wonderfully witty:

Cheap is relative to others in the class. Right now the Europeans don't really have anything to compete against it at its price point even with tariffs & VAT. Plus it is American muscle admired and lusted for since the very first version back in `64.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:27:27 GMT, the guvnor wrote something wonderfully witty:

Nor were the French, but hells bells man it was a war that wasn't being fought to win. According to some it wasn't even a war, it was a policing action.

It was being fought to maintain a status quo. We (the Americans & UN troops) simply decided it was no longer worth fighting for the goal of a stalemate. Many other countries from the UN where there with us as well. They didn't fare much better either with the exceptions of the Koreans who had a rather perverse method of dealing with an attack on one of their Fire Bases.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:46:29 -0400, Sarah Czepiel wrote something wonderfully witty:

Well they do have a certain level of power since the are a nuclear nation and the people are a little hyper in their attempts to eek out an existence as a subsidence farmer.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:32:07 GMT, "Larry J." wrote something wonderfully witty:

All depends, as Argentina taken any of their sheep farming Islands lately?

It's what they've done with any junk that the americans have ever come up with, that's for sure.

Well, no, I'm not an idiot, and I do know that China has about 90 submarines, more than 5,000 combat aircraft, an army of more than two million, and they have also just committed an additional $10 billion toward a updating the navy. Yes, it'll take a while, but fighting the Chinese is not a slam dunk. After all the bombs are dropped and all the missiles shot someone still has to go in and take possession with boots on the ground.

BTW, I was a staffie... CincPac, CincPacFlt, NATO South, ComFairMed, SubLant

I'm killfiling the whole mess....

The Communists fought to win and beat America.

Ugly Sarah, a stay at home *old* housewife pretending that she knows more about the navy at than someone who was in it??

Admired and lusted over for it's van style suspension?

Ever wondered why that despite being cheap and nasty, American cars still don't sell?

Because I'm a quality European surrounded by quality things, innit.

We sent it to your masters in Israel.

Is so, you've not noticed that all your belonings have "Made in PRC" on them?