Finally chose the engine for my 68 coupe!

Well, I have been going back and forth like a pendulum - do I rebuild the 289? Do I just go nuts and drop a 460 in there? Do I build a 351W
stroker? ARGH!
So I thought I had finally settled on a 351W with a PAW Automotive stroker kit, taking it out to 420 cubes. I was referred to a Mustangs- and Fords-only bone yard in Temple, Texas (I am in Austin). I called them up, told them I wanted a 351W bare block to start the project, and also scored the complete front disc brakes off a 1980 Grenada cheap in the process.
So this morning I was supposed to drive up, and I called them and asked if there was any chance the block I was getting was from a 1994 or newer vehicle, i.e. a roller motor. He said, "No, it's a 1970 block. But," he says, "I have a complete 1994 Ford Lightning engine for sale" (from the oil pan to the fuel injection, with computer and complete wiring harness). So I look it up. Hrm... 351W, GT40 heads, roller motor, fuel injection, plenty of horsepower and gobs of torque. So I ask him a bunch of questions, and find out that the engine was running around a year ago when the Lightning was wrecked, and has been in a covered warehouse ever since.
He also refers me to a local mechanic who put one of these in a '67 coupe, and told me to call him. I call, and the guy says that it is not a hard swap, all you need is a high pressure fuel pump and lines.
I ask how much for the engine, and he tells me $2600. So, there's a new (to me) fuel-injected Lightning 351W on a stand in the garage!
I think it will be really slick - a fuel-injected 351W roller motor with GT40 heads in a 1968 Coupe. I am also seriously considering the Ford Racing blower for the Lightning - at 6psi boost, it pumps up horsepower and torque by about 30% according to the Ford Racing web site. And it's only $2050. Hell, I was planning on spending $4000-$5000 on the stroker motor. If I spend the same amount on this engine and the blower I will probably wind up with around 375-400 ponies and a more reliable engine.
Thoughts?
Thomas
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Thomas Cameron wrote:

I think you'll have more hp than 400. Sounds like a good direction to go. And you'll surely never see another one like it, which is a big plus.
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:53:28 -0700, one80out wrote:

Me, too. I'm just trying to keep from getting my hopes up too high.

Yeah, it will definitely be unique!
Thomas
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How many miles on the lightining moter? Try getting it running first and then upgrade to the blower. You may like it naturally aspirated and can spend the money on better brakes, etc. If you get it running as is, you'll be able to work out the bugs before installing a blower. Remember murphy's law. Just my opinion.
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Mark
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:02:18 -0700, Mark C. wrote:

He said it was about 40K miles. I'm going to do compression and oil pressure tests off the bat to make sure the engine is OK.

Yeah, I probably will. I have a budget for this project, but blowing it all up front worries me.

Yeah, good point. I *really* want to get the suspension worked out, too.

Heck, it's not opinion - it's the LAW. :-) Murphy was an optimist.
Thomas
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Thomas Cameron wrote:

Score! That's going to be a heck of a motor. What about the trans? The Lightening AOD would fit in there very easily, and would be a blast to drive.
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:41:20 -0600, .boB wrote:

He wanted $700 for the AOD, and I have no idea if it will fit in the '68 coupe's tunnel. I actually *want* a T56 six-speed manual, but will probably go with the C4 until it breaks.
Thomas
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A T56 will definitely require tunnel surgery. I don't believe I've heard of any need for that with an AOD. I don't think $700 is much of a bargain for an AOD. Those things are not rare, and these days they're not young either. I would think about the 4R70W instead. Here's one guy's web page on his '66's conversion: http://www.blueriver.net/~finite/project_od.htm
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:56:09 -0700, one80out wrote:

Really??? I was under the impression that the T5 and T56 would bolt right in!

Yeah, I wasn't interested in it at that price. If the T56 won't fit, I am leaning towards a C6 then.

Wow - that looks like a pretty serious, expensive job. I am not sure I want to go that route... I was really hoping for a bolt-in, avoiding any more fabrication.
Thomas
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Yeah, a T-5 will go in with very little trouble, and the adaptors are readily available. I'm putting one in my kids' '65 as soon as I can round up the parts. But other than the fact they both have an input shaft and an output shaft, a T-56 has no similarity whatsoever to a T-5.
Here's a website about getting a Tremec 3550 into a '65 http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/Pages/Tremec.html
Check this photo for an idea of how much sheetmetal needed to come out:
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/Pages/Tremec014.jpg
A T56 is bigger than a Tremec.
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A T56 will bolt right in, but the pinion angle will be WAY off and will cause a horrendous shaking. To get the pinion angle right you have to basically fab a new tranny tunnel to get the tail of the tranny up higher. Do-able, but a true PITA.

Eesh, why? Yeah a C6 is bullet proof, but the AOD's are pretty strong and you keep OD. You can put the 4R70W gearset in an AOD and get all the advantages of the wide ratio and you dump the whole brain box PITA.
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'66 HCS Mustang 289
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:22:54 -0600, "66 6F HCS"

I want to go the AOD route for the highway driving, but I'd like to keep some pep.
Is there an information source for what you're talking about with the 4R70W? and will it drop in to a 65 FB 289 w/C4?
The outfit I have been talking to has been pushing the AODE out of a late model Mustang GT, which is going to require shortening the driveshaft, new crossmember, tv cable, etc.
Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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You keep the "pep" with the wideset gears from the 4R70W and nearly the strength of the C6. You running more than 450 lb/ft torque? AOD is fine for that.

It's a straight forward swap. I heard about it from the guy who built the C4 in my Ranchero when I asked him about putting an AOD in my '69. I've seen this info on the 'net too, but can't remember where.

Well, you'd have to do that with the AOD also, you just don't need th brainbox that you HAVE to have for the AODE. The AODE is n't really much different than the AOD other than it's electronically controlled.
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'66 HCS Mustang 289
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I'd prefer, I think - unless someone can show a good reason why not - to stay away from electronic stuff. After years of fighting one thing or another with the Firebird....
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:19:17 -0600, "66 6F HCS"

Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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Exactly why the AOD would be the more desirable than the AODE.
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'66 HCS Mustang 289
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:56:09 -0700, one80out wrote:

Like this one? It's 1bout a grand, shipped. Is that a good price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&itemy82012847
Thomas
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It's not THAT easy. There are some things that have to be modified on the harness for the 'puter to "see" things that you won't have on the '68. Plus, you'll have to run O2 sensors in your exhaust, which means drilling and adding the O2 bungs into your headers. You'll also have to plumb a return line back to the gas tank and then figure out where you're going to have the return line return to (through the sending unit usually). If ONLY it truly WAS that easy.
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'66 HCS Mustang 289
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On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:06:21 -0600, 66 6F HCS wrote:

My understanding is that Painless can either sell you a complete wiring harness or modify yours so that everything will work together.

Ugh - hadn't thought of that.

Yeah, we're looking at cutting a high pressure fuel pump out of some other fuel tank and welding it into the Mustang's tank. Nothing like a little fabrication work!

Nothing, but nothing is ever *that* easy. :-)
But it ought to be a beast when all is said and done!
Thomas
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Painless does have a variety of harnesses to fit various adaptations. They are pricey. There are some other wiring companies which will either custom a set, or have sets ready or adaptable for less. In one case the owner of the local custom rod shop advised me that I could save about $400 with other than Painless. It's been a number of months and I don't recall what brand he uses. You might try a Google search.
Just a thought, but.... You might also wish to do some added research with Windsor-Fox www.windsorfox.com, and any others you can find. I haven't looked lately, but check the Tech sections of www.mustangmonthly.com ,and www.mustangandfords.com for related articles. Take whatever you can find and plan out in advance what you need to do in what order. Some of these have step by step with photos you can download.
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:29:34 GMT, Thomas Cameron

Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
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No, no, no. Don't waste time that way. Just buy a pump that mounts to the inside of your rear framerail. that way you only have to rerun some plumbing with zero mods to the tank itself. Plus there are a few places that will modify your harness for a fee, but cheaper than buying a new one that's already modded. Look here... http://tinyurl.com/dnr5g http://tinyurl.com/95cag
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