Electric AC Compressor in Dixie

Managing the gasoline's energy doesn't change that it still uses GASOLINE as its sole source of energy.

It's still a "gasser". It's not an electric car, or a car that runs on magic beans, or whatever seems to give you orgasmic pleasure.

Managing the gasoline's energy doesn't change that it still uses GASOLINE as its sole source of energy.

It's still a "gasser". It's not an electric car, or a car that runs on magic beans, or whatever seems to give you orgasmic pleasure.

So, then, you don't think the hybrid's ability to recover kinetic energy differentiates if from a conventional gas powered car. Incredible!

Some would argue that, when it operates exclusively on captured kinetic energy, it has reverted to electric operation. I suppose this is why they call it a hybrid. You find fault with that characterization because finding fault is what you do.

Al Falta, you have correctly identified the effect and the troll has identified the mechanism, "managing the gasoline's energy" that separates the Prius hybrid electric from gassers. But let's add some technical details:

o electric motor generators and battery - the Prius carries a substantial amount of energy in the traction battery that as you've observed, can move the car several miles. Prius electric only range is typically just a mile but it can be extended which makes the car substantially safer than a gasser or diesel.

o continues to move when all gas is burned - I've run our Prius out of gas over four dozen times to support my gasoline studies. With one exception, I've always been able to move the car to a safe place to add the one gallon, spare can. The one exception was my wife's ZVW30 which as a more subtle "out of gas" indicator. The ZVW30 requires monitoring the energy flow display that suppresses the flow arrows when all gas is finally burned. In contrast, the NHW11 and NHW20 provide an abundance of alerts and alarm with the last gas is burned. This superior Prius ability to move the car to a safe place to refuel is a major advantage over gassers.

o engine efficiency - because the electric power system provides power instead of using the engine when it would be inefficient, limited or exceptionally polluting. Gassers have to move the car at both low and high power settings. At low power, gasser engines are especially inefficient due to pumping losses through the throttle plate. The Prius just turns the engine off and uses the electric power. On the high power demands such as climbing a hill or passing, an efficient engine can run out of power. However, the electric system provides additional power and can give an apparent improvement in a hill climb MPG:

So once again, the superior Prius goes where gassers and diesels can not follow. Fuel efficiency and safety are important differences. For example, here is the result of a 10 mile, loop:

Yes, from a dead start the electric-only range is only about a mile but, as Newton's First Law of Motion so eloquently states, a body in motion tends to stay in motion. A little captured kinetic energy can extend that range quite a bit if you going 40 mph when you run out of gas.

So a gasser uses gas, and a Prius uses gas.

Hmmmmmm.

So any car that sources its energy solely from gasoline is a gasser...but wait, the Prius sources its energy solely from gasoline....

That's a blanket statement that is a lie.

The electric power system provides power when (a) the computer decides there's enough electric power available, and (b) when the computer decides it would be more efficient.

It is not solely a decision of "using the gasoline engine would be inefficient, therefore let's use electric power". If there's no electric power to be had, then the Hybrid Synergy Drive system uses the gasoline engine.

Because, as we all know, the sole source of energy that's put into the Hybrid Synergy Drive is gasoline.

So stop inventing things out of thin air, things you know not to be true.

You would say anything, even lie, if you found some truth about the world that you found inconvenient.

Nope. The Hybrid Synergy Drive system's ability to manage the gasoline-sourced energy does not change the fact that the Prius is still a gasser.

It's not an electric car, no matter how badly people want it to be so.

Yes indeed and the Prius can climb on traction battery power say to reach a gas station at the next off ramp. A lot of folks have voided the 'gas can walk' because of this unique, Prius feature.

Bob Wilson

Nope. The Hybrid Synergy Drive system's ability to manage the gasoline-sourced energy does not change the fact that the Prius is still a gasser.

It's not an electric car, no matter how badly people want it to be so.

The electricity delivered to my home comes from coal, the electricity delivered to my car comes from gas. Now I suppose you will argue that my home is a "coaler" huh? Why don't we nitpick right down to where that gas comes from? If we do that, your entire argument falls to pieces.

I was just over

Not a single gasser or diesel in the lot, just hybrids and electrics. Awesome cars, the Prius leads the pack of hybrids and is only beaten by today's electrics. In fact, the only way to see any gassers or diesels in the EPA ranking is to choose "Hwy" only and even then, the Prius hands the gassers and diesels their lunch.

Since we've been waiting for village idiot to volunteer which gasser to compare to the Prius, I changed the configuration to sort by highway mileage and found the following gassers:

vs.

The only thing that makes sense is to match engine displacements, the Hyundai Elantra versus Prius, and see what comes out:

So in four out of six metrics, the Prius is clearly superior to the same sized engine gasser. It is only 2% smaller in passenger space but clearly makes up for it being 46% larger in cargo. The Elantra has a

So which car matches which kind of owner:

o changes cars annually - Elantra since purchase price is a key determinant. However, this person also pays a high, new car, depreciation cost of about $5,000 per annual purchase. o drives only a few miles always on the highway - Elantra since this person doesn't drive much, they don't buy much gas so the fuel savings are modest o single and apartment - without much stuff, the smaller trunk is adequate o frightened of the future - those who are unable to cope with change and new technology and at least one sociopath

o holds car for years (pays them off) - Prius since the new car depreciation is amortized over a long interval and Prius resale value has stayed high (and higher lately) o city and suburban driving - Prius since the fuel savings are substantial over the Elantra o road warrior - again the Prius fuel savings are substantial so taxi cab companies make out like bandits. o homeowner with kids - Prius since the cargo space holds the stuff kids need and a home owner needs to keep the property up.

Bob Wilson

Your electric company can turn the generators a number of ways, using a number of sources of energy. They can buy electricity on the open market from any number of sources over which they have no control.

Your Prius takes in exactly one source of energy: gasoline. Period. It is not an electric car.

Go on, wacko, keep pretending that the hybrids are not "gassers". They all use gasoline as their sole source of energy.

I had pointed out:

As I was driving back, I realized that any Prius replacement at half the rate of Elantras, would have negated the 'hybrid premium:"

Elantra: $5,000 - 1st new car depreciation $5,000 - 2nd new car depreciation

Prius: $5,000 - 1st new car depreciation $5,000 - hybrid premium

This is entirely practical as the Prius engine has a fraction of the wear and tear of gasser engines. The same is true for the transaxle which is relatively free from engine power pulses that stress and strain the gears.

The Prius is superior to the nearest gasser, the Elantra.

Bob Wilson

Your electric company can turn the generators a number of ways, using a number of sources of energy. They can buy electricity on the open market from any number of sources over which they have no control.

Your Prius takes in exactly one source of energy: gasoline. Period. It is not an electric car.

Of course it isn't an electric car. It's a hybrid. Sometimes it runs on gasoline, sometimes it runs on electricity derived from captured kinetic energy. Cripes, Elmo, haven't you been paying attention?

Go on, wacko, keep pretending that the hybrids are not "gassers". They all use gasoline as their sole source of energy.

What about when they have a strong tailwind?

Then so does every other car driving on the same road at the same time.

...said kinetic energy having been produced in the first place by...drum roll, please...gasoline.

Speaking of your not paying attention...

It's frightening that you are allowed to vote.

. . .

All vehicles have a reduction in aerodynamic drag but the engine effects are not linear:

gassers - as the power demand falls off, the throttle plate closes and this leads to higher pumping losses. The engine has to expend more energy to suck in air through the partially closed throttle plate. So a tail wind causes ordinary gas engines to be less efficient although it doesn't fall off as fast as the lower power saves fuel.

Prius - due to the Atkinson cycle, part of the fuel-air mix passes to the next cylinder without having to go through the throttle plate. So the engine efficiency is relatively flat. For the 1.5L engine, 65 mph and below on a standard day gives 52 MPG sunrise to sunset. With a tail wind, the Prius can travel faster and still stay in the 52 MPG range or stay at the same ground speed and get much better than 52 MPG.

Bob Wilson

...said kinetic energy having been produced in the first place by...drum roll, please...gasoline.

Speaking of your not paying attention...

It's frightening that you are allowed to vote.

There you go, ignoring the difference between a hybrid and a "gasser." The "gasser" can't capture and reuse kinetic energy. You are incredibly dense.