My thoughts on the problems...

You know, I have owned 2 Priuses now, a 2005 and a 2010. Both fully loaded. I will buy another. But I have NOT had the problems these people are describing.

Personally, I think there are several things at work here.

First, nobody reads the manual. (That is the first thing I did when I got it home after purchase.) Therefore, these people dont know how to drive the car. Yes, you can point and push, but you dont know what will happen if you shift to neutral.

Second, it seems swfully funny to me that of all these reports, NO ONE yet has mentioned using the B on the gearshift. For georges sake, its an engine brake. I use it when i am on steep inclines and it works. While driving at 70, it will slow me to 45 in short order. NO ONE has mentioned this!

Third, in keeping with the understanding that the media is the propaganda arm of the democratic party, their current mission is to ruin Toyota. This is because Toyota outsells GM (Govt. Motors) and now that the democrats own GM, they need to boost sales. THERE is the true conspiracy.

I turned down the offer from my dealership to have the software update done. The car doesnt need it. It works the way it is supposed to. I will purchase another Prius in a few more years. I cant wait for the plug-in so I dont need gas to go 3 miles to work and back!

Reply to
Detritus
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That's a given. "I don't need a manual, I know how to drive!" Fuck 'em if they can't be bothered to read the manual to their shiny new $25,000 toy.

Because you and I are two of the maybe 10 drivers in the country that know about it.

Oh, there are probably some individuals who are influencing things those ways, but I doubt it's government policy.

I'll buy out my 07 company car in a year or so, then buy another one for my wife. Or maybe I'll buy one now for my wife, another 07 or 08. Get 'em while they're cheap.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Snipped for brevity>

As I understand it (and have experienced on a 2005 and 2010) B only acts as a engine brake when the accelerator is NOT in use. As soon as it is, B is disengaged and the engine acts normally. B will re-engage when the foot is lifted from the accelerator and this will continue until D, N, or P are selected. Thus, IF (and it's a very big IF) any such unintended acceleration incident occurs it must be assumed that it would have the same effect as flooring the accelerator pedal and therefore render B inoperative. So I can't see how B would be any help at all in slowing the car down under unintended acceleration conditions.

Does anyone know exactly what this software upgrade does? I confess I've had no problems with my 2010 in this area but I also suspect that there might be a down side to the upgrade which might, in the long term, cause me to regret having it done.

Reply to
Chas Gill

I'm surprised to learn that Media Commentators Rush and Kenny are arms of the Democratic party.

Mr Ed

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Reply to
Mr Ed

Chas Gill:

ransley:

Also doubt the moon landings, do you? Toyota told the Congress, the NTSB, and the public what the software update does -- it turns off the fuel supply if the brake is applied at the same time the accelerator pedal is depressed.

Davoud

Reply to
Davoud

Chas Gill:

Not saying you're wrong, but that's not the way it works on my '06. If I forget to shift into D after using B to slow for a traffic signal (e.g.) the car will accelerate away from the signal still in B. I can feel the drag, so I have never left it in B long.

Davoud

Reply to
Davoud

Well, technically he's correct--when you press the accelerator with the shifter in B, it behaves like a normally accelerating Prius. Functionally, it is no different. Functionally, B is disengaged when you're accelerating.

However, the shifter remains in B.

And therefore, when you lift off the accelerator pedal, B kicks in again--the pumping engine is engaged (sans fuel/spark) to add drag to the system.

So you're both right.

B simply adds the non-running pumping engine into the mix to simulate being in a lower gear. It's pretty ingenious, actually. And by definition, when accelerating the car cannot be functioning in B, even though the shifter is still in B.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

That is NOT what the software update does with the 2010 Prius.

What you're describing is what they're busy adding to every other car, but which is not needed for the Prius--since the Prius already behaves that way.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

For the ZVW30 (2010-...) Prius the software update fixes a .8 (eight tenths) second braking lapse where the car coasts when transitioning from regen to friction braking during an event that causes the ABS to kick in. So say you are braking toward a red light and a wheel crosses a rough or slick spot such as a pothole, sand, ice, or a wet manhole cover which causes a wheel speed variation that triggers the ABS. The regen drops out and .8 seconds later the friction brakes kick in.

Reply to
Daniel who wants to know

It's noticeably different in the 2010. Have you experienced this in a 2010? You are slowing toward a stop, hit a bump, and suddenly you have no brakes at all. Press harder on the pedal and you have brakes again. The Gen 2 doesn't behave this way and it is this behavior the TSB addresses.

Reply to
Al Falfa

...something that happens on the previous gen Prius as well, but which no one really cares about...

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Which raises the secondary questions: -

  1. What purpose was intended to be served by the original 0.8 sec delay which, I presume, was seen as an improvement over Gen 2?

  1. Will this software mod - in the long term - affect the overall fuel economy/brake life/any number of other things that I can't immediately think of?

Chas

Reply to
Chas Gill

I haven't experienced it on a 2010, but I know how it works on the previous gen. Happens to me all the time whenever I go over a bump or hit a rough spot while braking. I have a moment of not braking before the various sensors sort things out.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Interesting comments. I've got a 2006 Prius with 80+k miles on it and it has been an amazingly reliable car with never an accelerator hiccup. Presumably it has the same software as every other '06 Prius. I am not convinced that there even is a Toyota accelerator problem but, if there is, it is almost certainly some sort of mechanical problem rather than a software fault since a software fault would manifest itself consistently every time the fault conditions occurred. That is the nature of software faults. A lot of the anti-Toyota hysteria in the media seems to be led by ABC News, for some unfathomable reason. ABC was the one who made the 'runaway Prius' story in San Diego a worldwide story, even though it sounded fishy as hell to anyone who drove a Prius. How could anyone be driving down the freeway for 20 minutes at 94mph chatting on his cell phone in the allegedly runaway Prius and not just shift into N, put it in B as you mention, or shut off the ignition? If I were Toyota, I would never again buy a single ad on ABC.

Toyota may have a problem with unintended acceleration in some of their vehicles but I am convinced that they have worked diligently and honestly to correct any problem they could find and that they are unaware of any problem that they have not already issued a recall for.

Reply to
David T. Johnson

Perhaps the Gen 2 had the same problem, but in 40K Gen 2 miles I never experienced it. I've experienced it twice in 5K Gen 3 miles, both times in the same spot leading me to believe it is readily repeatable. The scenario is follows: Regenerative braking is slowing the car, with pedal pressure insufficient to force a transition to friction braking. A wheel jumps over a small bump resulting in an instantaneous loss of traction [for that wheel] which apparently signals the ABS system. The ABS disables regenerative braking but there is insufficient pedal pressure to engage friction braking and .8 seconds will pass before the ABS system does it for you.

There is a psychological element in play. The driver is slowing to a stop using pedal pressure sufficient to the task. Essentially, the driver's mind is made up. The car will come to a stop in 2 seconds. Say one-a-thousand twice to appreciate how much ground can be covered as one approaches a stop. Suddenly there are no brakes at all for about 40% of the remaining time. It's quite noticeable and somewhat unsettling. I reacted with more pedal pressure and either that worked or the .8 second delay elapsed, hard to say which. It is remarkably different from the normal [in a Prius] transition from regenerative-to-friction braking that we rarely notice.

Since the TSB applies only to the Gen 3 the Gen 2 must be programmed differently. Changes were probably necessitated by the switch from Gen 2 rear drum brakes to Gen 3 rear disk brakes.

Reply to
Al Falfa

I have had the experience that Elmo speaks of in my 2005 Prius.

Reply to
Jean B.

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