Saabaru

They are essentially Opels with a Vauxhall badge. The 'V' in the name is used creatively to give the car a nose in the front grille, as you can imagine here: ____ ____ That's probably the only difference O ---V--- O

from Opels. Vauxhall used to have their own range of cars, but since it was a GM subsidiary, the Vauxhall of the 60's looked like american cars of the time, scaled down to euro size but complete with fins and spaceship rocket lamps.

Of course, I'm dating myself here but, . . . Vauxhall's were imported here in the USA back in the '50s and '60s. I remember the '60s as being (in a sense) the golden era of European car availability as practically all marques were available here in the USA, unlike today. Just to name a few . . . all BMC products, Triumph, Rover, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Simca, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, NSU, FIAT, SEAT, Vauxhall, Hillman, Sunbeam, Daimler, Facel-Vega, and others - and, of course, SAAB with the 92/93 and Volvo with the 444/544/and 122S (Amazon). It was a fun time for an American automobile enthusiast, especially since most of the marques could be purchased for less than 3,000 USD!

Don

Well, I don't think I saw all the Marque's you mentioned NSU? SEAT?, Facel-Vega? Were those formally imported or just brought in by a few enterprising individuals ?

Oddly, those would have been very popular with some crowds over here, particularly if we could have stuffed small v8 motors into them :-)

Any pictures?

There is a very tidy 70's Vauxhall VX 4/90 which looks like a 4 door scaled down muscle car that drag races in the UK, with a big block US motor, and Nitrous. Makes over 1000BHP, and is street legal.

I suppose... if your street is the Autobahn!

Had a 9-2X for the last couple of days while my new 9-5 was getting its accessories. My impressions of the "Aero" (turbo version of the car.)

Fun little car with lots of power above 3000 rpm. Not much torque below that, however. I was struck by the difference between the 9-2X and the Subaru Legacy with an even hotter 250 hp turbo 4 I drove while I was shopping. The Legacy/Outback was tuned for much more low end torque. Still, the 9-2X was seriously quick and fast. Turbo rush was pronounced and if you keep the transmission from 3500-6000 rpm the car is a mover. (I suspect the automatic is much less impressive, but I don't know.)

Overall looks (exterior and interior) are better, imho, than the Subaru WRX, but that's not a very high bar to surpass. Interior is very Subaru with little Saab. On the other hand, nice leather interior that's not available, as far as I know, on the Subaru. (And the 9-2X at least has usable cupholders, a lesson lost on those who design "real" Saabs.) Still, the interior is very Japanese without the quality of Hondas or Toyotas.

I've read that Saab added significant sound insulation to the 9-2X compared to the WRX. If that's true, the WRX must be like driving in a cement mixer. Very noisy compared to my 9-5 (and the Subaru Legacy.) Not surprising, of course, but I'd expect the 9-2X to at least resemble the refinement of its Saab brethren. It doesn't.

Would I buy one? Not likely unless the price (about $30K USD) were seriously discounted. Even then, I suspect that Saab will have a difficult time drawing the intended market to this car. The 9-2X doesn't have the refinement of either the 9-3 or the 9-5 and is at disadvantage in terms of the price point with its Subaru WRX sibling. All in all, strikes me as a prep school version of a boy racer sedan.

Pretty much what I thought of it though I had it a much shorter time. I looked at getting one rather than pick up a used (err..."pre-owned") Viggen or Aero because I'd heard Saab was giving huge deals to move them. Not so. By the time you end up with what you want, your at $30K. Kind of steep considering the showroom had a 9-3 Arc that was reasonable optioned, manual trans for $31,500. The 9-3 Arc is such a nice car inside, it's not even close. Had I been able to walk away with a 9-2X for $23K, I'd have seriously considered it. Instead I opted for a much much cheaper "pre-owned" Viggen....and it is soooooooo nice and unbelievably fast. Maybe the 9-2X is a tad faster but I'll take the minor hit because the Viggen is so far ahead of the 9-2X in terms of looks, interior, etc.

Power doesn't matter, if you can't use it, it is still tested every year, has treaded street rubber not slicks, and when tested on the brake rollers can stop the wheels dead from the required speed/pressure.

It passes the inspection, it is legal for an other year, unless stopped for a fault by the police while driving.

My choice was an '04 9-5 ARC wagon at about $9000 off msrp of $40.5K. Needed a wagon for the canine portion of the family so the 9-3 wasn't an option. Love the 2.3T turbo. Not as quick as the 9-2X, but far less "peaky" engine.

I'm really impressed with the Viggen 2.3T. It's got a surprising amount of low end torque which I didn't think it would have until the boost pressure kicked in. Compared to my 97 900 SE Turbo engine, it seems there is a lot less travel into the boost even though it has a lot more boost to play with. When the Viggen starts boosting, you really feel it, it's hard to believe it's got that much power for a 4 cyl. Reminds me of the old SVO mustang. The Viggen also gets damn good mileage! Sorry

I just wonder if the 9-5 Aero has the same speed as the Viggen? They supposedly use the same 2.3T engine but I keep hearing the Aero has more lag and a slower accelleration. Odd.

No appreciable turbo lag in 9-5 (judging primarily by the ARC which I've driven more than the Aero.) However, given the greater weight of the 9-5 versus the Viggen and the effort to eliminate torque steer that prompted a lot of negative press in the Viggen, I suspect that, at least in terms of feel, the 9-5 doesn't have the "kick in the pants" experience of the Viggen.

I'm solving the torque steer issue with a Viggen Rescue Kit (actually an MP steering clamp and brace). Supposedly it tames the torque steer which is somewhat of a drawback in the Viggen but it just requires a bit more muscle. It is a kick to drive though;)

As I've posted here before, my '02 Aero has *horrific* turbo lag --

It is impossible to "burn rubber" with this car (short of racing the engine and popping the clutch, not recommended) because it has such anemic low-end torque. Someone who hasn't had lots of practice driving the car -- like my wife, who is used to her 911 Porsche -- tends to practically kill the engine starting out because it's so gutless.

Gary

-- I am more than happy with my 9000 Aero. You just need to learn to drive it properly, you don't have to "burn rubber" to get along quickly, that's the attraction of Saabs. Perhaps you ought to have tried the car before you bought it ;-)

Richard & Mary Sutherland-Smith 19 Webb Road, Wanganui 5001, New Zealand

I suspect I would be too. I was quite happy with my 900 turbo and 9000 turbo, and I was very impressed with the two 9000 Aero's I've driven. That's why I made the leap of faith and ordered a brand-new 9-5 Aero. But none of those cars had anywhere near the lag nor the anemic low-end torque that my Aero has.

I didn't claim you had to. I merely used that as a demonstration of the 9-5 Aero's total lack of low-end torque, even compared to a non- Aero 9-3.

I did. Or rather, I tried the automatic version, which was all the dealer had on hand and which (as I mentioned) smooths out the lag at shifts better than I can with the manual. It also avoids most of the problems with the low-end torque, since you don't have to worry about killing the engine with an auto. I strongly suspect the car was designed for an auto transmission and the manual is just an extremely poor match for the engine's turbo characteristics.

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about here, since you have not driven the car in question. I've been driving turbo Saabs since 1986. I think I have a pretty good idea how to drive one, including one like the 9000 Aero you're using as your basis of comparison. Those cars drive nothing like my Aero.

When I test-drove the automatic, I assumed much of the lag I experienced was due to the normal mushy response of an automatic. Bad assumption. But once I had ordered and received the 5-speed, and found out the lag was much WORSE with the 5-speed, I couldn't return it.

Gary

Sounds like it could use a compressor bypass valve, there shouldn't be noticeable lag between shifts.

I don't think so either -- you'd think once it's spun up, it should stay spinning for a bit, certainly long enough for a shift -- but that's not what mine does. I can shift pretty !@#% fast if I try, but I can't shift it fast enough to avoid the 1.5-2sec delay before the power really kicks in in the new gear. Which, if I'm shifting/accelerating agressively, is almost time for the next shift.

So I'm fishing for suggestions. Some have suggested replacing the blowby valve, which I assume is the same thing as the diverter valve. I replaced mine with a Stratmosphere Hyperboost,

Gary

Yes it is, are you sure it's hooked up correctly?