I know it was said when they worked with Fiat/Lancia/Alfa, and when they got bought by GM, and when they built the Saabaru.
But this digs deep into the very heart of Saab and it's manufacturing history rather than just being a brand.
If they go the wrong way on this GM and it's board of directors can rot in hell, and forever be tormented by trolls with little hammers and pitchforks.
It would be typically GM management, it's just about money.
No idea about branding and decent quality, thinking a different badge will fool customers, and when things go wrong they just throw it all out the window. They had a great opportunity with Saab to go upmarket, like Ford did with Volvo. But no, disguise a vectra, cut corners whereever possible and oh, what a surprise, it doesn't work!
...and when they discontinued the freewheel, and when they stopped building cars with 2-stroke engines and put a (gasp!) German Ford engine in the car, and...and...and...
Wow. Makes me wish the link you posted worked so I could see what you're talking about?
Dave Hinz
The link is fine. It really does end with .../1/.html. Try it again:
And if you still can't get it to work, here's the important part, copyright (c) 2004 Agence France Presse, of course:
STOCKHOLM : US auto giant General Motors has decided to shut down one of its two mid-size car-making plants in Europe next year, a decision that could force its subsidiary Saab to close operations in Sweden and slash
6,300 jobs, the Swedish metalworkers' union said."During the first quarter next year, General Motors will decide which place is the company's future for the production of mid-size cars. There are two possible solutions. One is Trollhaettan (in southwestern Sweden, just north of Gothenberg). The other is Russelsheim in Germany," the union wrote in a statement.
OK, got it. That's an ...odd... way to make a URL, but OK.
Lovely. GM bought Saab in the first place to get production capacity. Now, GM doesn't want production capacity so they're considering effectively killing Saab. That's just freaking lovely. Not a surprise, of course, but that's the problem when you get in bed with big business.
A Saab built in Japan is not a Saab. A Saab built in Germany _could_ be a Saab, just as the ones built in Norway, Finland, and Belgium are. But if they're going to assemble it in Detroit or something, then I'll be keeping that 99-Turbo I'm getting this sunday (!) for a very long time I think.
Dave Hinz
That begs the question: what makes a Saab a Saab? Is the location of the factory that important? In February, I bought my first car: a 2004 9-3. Because I'm new to Saabs (and vintage are older than I am), I can't appreciate the "new Saabs aren't really Saabs" complaints. What did I miss out on by buying my 9-3?
Just stay away from that so-called 9-7....
Not much i think, it is a fine automobile.
But many people, myself included, are not to keen about GM's way of treating this swedish marque and it's heritage of making characterful, safe and technically advanced cars.
I think they are not making a real effort, the new 9-3 is a good car, but they are also rebranding Subaru's and Chevy's and thus reducing it to yet another label, like everything is interchangeable.
in article snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 03/09/2004 14:57:
In article , snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net spouted forth into alt.autos.saab...
A Saab built somewhere else is still a Saab while Saab is still in Sweden, but what next, Just replace the Badge with an S? Then they can stick it on any Subaru off the line?
It really is a bad day. I feel equally sad if Opel go, because they were the dominant force in GM Europe for so long, and have made some interesting, and very competetive cars in motorsport, and peoples jobs and national identity of a brand are going to be lost forever one way or another any way.
"That begs the question: what makes a Saab a Saab? Is the location of the factory that important?"
We shouldn't criticise GM for being BIG or successful at what they do. A lot of people wouldn't be able to afford a car at all if it wasn't for them and their like....
But the way their business works - (mass production and economy of scale) doesn't always suit the often quirky, awkward values and beliefs of the brand names they swallow up. And it doesn't represent my personal image of Saab as quality and individuality....
I drive a 2.0 '93 9000CS. It has 132,000 miles on the clock, and I fully expect it to do twice that much. I hammer it up and down the motorway, (80 miles a day) without complaint. It always starts in the morning. The leather seats are extremely comfortable. And there's hardly a spot of rust on her (10 year anti-corrosion treatment). My wife drives a Ford Fiesta. It's only
6 years old. It's riddled with rust, tempremental.. And two of the doors won't open from the outside...So, is the location important? I'd love to believe that Saab workers in Sweden were more passionate about their jobs than the same assembly line in Detroit or wherever... but what we all love about Saab, and debate at length in this NG, is the quality, integrity and quirkiness of the design... and that may have already left the building, wherever it is, a long time ago...
(Sorry guys - guess I shouldn't have finished that bottle of wine)....
in article snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 03/09/2004 15:24:
Yay! Dave gets up to date with a 99T (ignoring the 9-5, that is :) ). When you get it, you'll be very welcome here
in article snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net, MeatballTurbo at snipped-for-privacy@bouncing-czechs.com wrote on 03/09/2004 19:49:
This is exactly my feeling. A consolidation of GM in Europe sounds very much to me like some lines will be chopped ... Do take heart though, Jaguar did survive the British Leyland fiasco!
So long as the keep the museum in Sweden ... I'd hate to have to travel to Detroit to see old SAABs :)
Paul
1989 900 Turbo S
Paul, tusen takk.
mvh, Dave
Sweet, I was wondering about APC for it. I'm torn between leaving it all original, and making it more current-ish. Probably will settle on "mods that don't involve cutting or welding or wrecking of parts are OK".
Actually, I'm going to own the car, and a cow-orker of mine is going to insure and drive it. Solves a problem for several people; the guy I bought it from isn't paying storage fees any more, my cow-orker gets to use the car, and I don't have to know that a nice 99T got auctioned off or shredded or something. I'll post pics at some point and announce 'em here.
Dave Hinz
in article snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de, Dave Hinz at snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote on 03/09/2004 20:52:
Excellent! There's a walkthrough on the main site for migrating LPT 900s to FPT with APC. In the forums, you'll find a poster called 'Nutcase' (Richard) who's lovingly restored a 99T (the full story is in the 99 section of the SAAB Central forums) and recently installed APC.
APC is an improvement, anyway, not a "mod"!
I've yet to see his car and had hoped to next weekend at the Gripen SAAB chapter of the UK SOC meeting, but it sounds like he's not attending now. They've extended their invitation to non-members, so a bunch of us are gate-crashing :)
Paul
No chance. Those funny olde cars contain loads of useful metal. Think of the shiny new Pontiacs[*] GM could make! (We know what devout believers GM are in pushing car technology ahead.) (""?)
[* : Said with some feeling, as I rented one these cr*pwagons in CA for 4(!) weeks this past July. What a concatenation of lousy ergonomics and un-safety features, including an optimised version of the "ignition key kneecap-remover" feature. (If GM are not to blame for Pontiac, reveal who is, so I can sneer at the guilty).]-- Andrew Stephenson
This could be the start of a long debate. But here goes:
GM dictated that Saab should use as many common GM components as possible to reduce cost. Note that I did not say reduce price. The purpose of a business is to make money and you make money by reducing cost and keeping or increasing the price. The big complaint against this policy is the quality of the lower cost GM components. The GM Saabs earned a troubled reputation because of failures with electrical components - the shared common GM components. I have a Classic SPG 900T and all of the electrical components work just fine, as does the SPG components :-) I have a GM Saab, which has been in the shop for a faulty ignition switch, half the dash lights had to be replaced, power seat relay failed, radio failed, and a battery cable failed - all in the first 40 days. I am hoping this is it. Then there is the debate about the DI cassette replacement rate - but in all fairness other companies are having issues with DI cassettes.
The rest is a matter of opinion. I like the body style of the Classic because you have fewer and smaller blind spots. I like the size of the cargo area in the hatchback design and the ease of loading and unloading. The Classic hatchback has no lower lip, you just slide heavy objects in and out - no lifting required.
"Nasty Bob" skrev i en meddelelse news:gA3_c.95678$ snipped-for-privacy@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
I the case of rust it IS a huge difference. The Saabs do fairly good rust-wise. The Opels - build in Russelsheim from German steel, rust like hell.....
So, where do you want your next Saab to be produced?
Cheers!
Saab has never built any cars in Norway, and not in Belgium either as far as I know. The current 9-3 convertible is built in Austria, the previous was built in Finland. The new 9-2X is built in Japan. The rest of the cars are built in Sweden.
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