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First time with major warranty issues

I have a 2002 Saturn SC-2 5-speed with 56,000 miles on it. While driving down the interstate on Christmas Day, the engine died. There was no check engine or oil warning light on. The only indication that something was wrong was a slight rattle from the engine compartment that was only noticeable above 2800 rpm. The rattle had only been there a couple of days and, due to problems with my wife's car, I just hadn't had a chance to leave it at a shop yet. It did not seem to get any faster or slower with engine speed, so I thought something was loose. Then, while driving with the cruise control on, the rattle got worse. I slowed to pull off at the next truck stop. 30 seconds later, the rattle got worse still and I moved to pull off the road. As I hit the clutch, the engine died and would not restart. I had it towed to the nearest Saturn dealer, who took 9 days to tell me the bearings had seized due to there being only a half quart of sludgy oil in the engine and that the engine would need a new crankshaft, bearings and a new rod.

Now I'm told someone from the Saturn warranty department is going to go inspect the vehicle personally. I've been changing the oil myself when prompted by the oil change light (roughly 4200 miles or so) and had done so

5 weeks and 1800 miles before the engine seized. I had topped off the oil 9 days before it happened. I'm concerned that Saturn will see the lack of oil and try to deny the warranty claim on my extended warranty. I've looked and can't find the receipt with my oil and filter on it, so the only evidence I have that an oil change was performed is my word and my maintenance logs on my computer. Has anyone else been facing this kind of situation before and how difficult is it to deal with the Saturn warranty department?
Reply to
cheapshot
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IMHO we need some additional information. Does your maintenance log include ALL oil additions? What is the oil consumption history AND TREND? Do you log ALL fuel? What is the fuel consumption history AND TREND? Do you check your oil (and coolant) at EVERY fuel addition? Did you check the oil and coolant level at the FIRST indication of a "rattle"? (since the valve train is the farthest from the oil pump, noisy valve train is often an indication of low oil level, but don't count on it.) Was there a visible oil cloud out of tailpipe? Did you check the oil and coolant level at the FIRST indication of an oil exhaust cloud? Was there any fluid stain on the ground under the engine where you park? Do you look before every startup? Did you check the oil and coolant level at the FIRST indication of a fluid leak? And what may be the most important for your warrantee claim, did you save the last oil filter you removed? did you mark on it the mileage that it was removed? (if you did you can now cut the filter apart and inspect for metal or other failure contamination), did you take or save an oil sample?

In all my mechanical experience I have never seen engine damage caused by checking the oil too often, and I have never seen a worn out dipstick. I would note that operators of heavy equipment and aircraft normally check the oil and coolant levels before EVERY startup (and often after lunch). I do not check before every startup but I do check at AND between fuelings, (before and after any highway trip and ~twice weekly). IMHexperience 4200 mi is too long to extend change intervals in my mainly highway usage, (I change @ ~3500mi depending on consumption, I normally change when near the add mark.)

IMHO while driving style and oil change intervals DO influence engine service life AND oil and fuel consumption rates, there is NOTHING (except crashing, frost or extreme operational abuse) that will result in catastrophic and expensive engine failure as fast (or as surely) as running low on coolant or oil. AFAIK most low oil pressure indicator lights do not function until there is NO oil pressure, by that time much damage has already been done..

At 56,000mi are you not still on your primary warrantee? IMHO extended warrantees are not a good investment. IMHO you will have a very hard time proving that this is not operator error.

This will be a very expensive (and probably unnecessary) repair, there may also be valve train or piston damage that is not obvious and could result in noisy operation and oil consumption from worn pistons or valve guides in the future. You probably require a complete rebuild. Investigate the cost of a factory new engine, it may not be much more than a repair/rebuild. Investigate availability of a used engine from a wreck. This alternative will require a LOT of luck as the warrantees on used engines are not worth much if you get a poor used engine.

just my .02 YMMV

Reply to
Private

snip Sorry, My mistake, due to confusion re Canada warranty is 60,000 km

Reply to
Private

-My maint. logs are complete for as long as I've been doing the maintainance on the car (about 20,000 miles). Unfortunately this was about the time I wised up and started keeping good records, so reciepts before that are spotty.

-The vehicle does not have a history of consuming oil. Consumption is always less than one quart between changes.

-I log all fuel for the purpose of calculating gas mileage, but do not keep dates or stations. (I work for a major fuel station chain so I'm intimately familiar with what I put in my tank most of the time). Gas mileage ranges between 30.6 and 39.5 mpg, with a 3-tank average not lower than 32.3 and not higher than 37.9 mpg over the last 4 months. There is no unusual trend in the data. The average mpg at the time of the failure was 35.0.

-I check my oil when I'm not in a hurry at the filling station. The interval is not regular, but it is about every 10-14 days.

-I checked my oil (and added 1/2 quart, bringing the level to the "full" line on the dipstick) 9 days before the failure, or about 6 days before the onset of the noise.

-My driveway was and is clean. I have a house so always park in the same spot. I did not notice an oil smoke cloud around the vehicle.

-I do still have the last filter, but the used oil from the last change is now mixed with oil from my wife's car.

-The owner's manual for the vehicle states that the "Change Oil" light should be used as a guide for the oil change interval unless the vehicle is used in dusty environs or for hard driving. The air is relatively clear here and my primary usage is for local highway/interstate commuting, and I've long outgrown street racing. My 4200 mile service interval, then, is based on when the car requests and oil change. I usually find the time to perform the oil change within a few days of the oil change light coming on.

Reply to
cheapshot

If you can demonstrate documented normal consumption this will indicate a sudden failure that consumed the oil in the engine. It also demonstrates good maintenance management.

This is about normal IMHexperience and is a lot better than some.

My proceedure is to write the milage on the receipt so I can save a couple of receipts before entering in my computer at home when I have time. The trend is the important fact here.

The average mpg at the time of the failure was 35.0.

This demonstrates regular checking and topping up before required.

No sudden leakage.

I did not notice an oil smoke cloud around the vehicle.

No piston failure causing sudden oil consumption.

This may be the best evidence you have. Any aviation mechanic can show you how to inspect the filter (and how to wash the paper in solvent and pan the fluid for metal) but you may want to hire an engine oil lab to perform the test for you as there may be enough oil left in the filter to test with spectroscopic analysis and they can give you a report that may be useful if you need to go to court. The filter may show metal which can often be identified as coming from bearings (babbit) or brass or iron or aluminum. Metal may indicate a coming failure. You should also test the filter on the engine at failure a no metal may indicate a pump failure.

but the used oil from the last change is

We can debate the efficacy of the change oil algorythm but I think we would agree that it satisfies the waranty requirements and is not so far off that it would have caused your engine failure.

The question now is if your extended warranty is from Saturn or if it is from an independent innsurance company. You should secure the failed engine parts and read the fine print in your warranty and then make a claim. You will probably be in for a fight and will need to do your homework to prove your claim. Ask your dealer for advice and support but get an independent opinion. You may want to save the post from 454,000mi in case they try to prorate any settlement.

I would want an independent mechanic to inspect the failed engine to determine what caused the sudden oil consumption or loss. You will need a written report. I have heard of oil pan or filter failures causing loss of oil. You did not say that the rod went through the block or pan so the outside of the engine or the engine bay should show evidence of any massive leak.

The question we now need to answer is where did the oil go?

Good luck,

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Private

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