Saturn Relay anyone?

That is the new minivan I believe. Check this month COnsumer Reports. They were not particularly kind.

First of all, let me make it clear that Consumer Reports HATES Saturns, they are very biased and just dont get it, forget anything that CR says. Most products that CS "suggests" are actually sponsor paid even though they claim they are independent. What is independent is the CR reporters opinion which has always been negative about Saturn from day one.

If you want a more honest and valuable opinion, I suggest Consumer Guide they are more intelligent and car knowlegeble.

That out of the way, the Relay is a new direction for Saturn, in which they share platform and design with other American GM products, ex: Buick Terraza and Chevy. Check out the article by Edmunds.com, suprising that they gave the Relay rave reviews. They are usually pretty tough to get such a nice review from, but they loved the Relay.

IMHO, the Relay is a fresh breath of air for Saturn, which still gives ppl alot of bang for thier buck, especially considering the price vs all the standard (not optional) features. This is also thier 1st all metal body vehicle, allowing perfect fit and finish over the old polymer panels.

My pet peeves with the Relay are:

1. As DVD is standard, it should come with a comprehensive DVD instructional, instead of the standard audio CD. There are just too many features on this thing to learn at one sitting.

1. the rugs could be a bit thicker, this si for transporting mess kids, remember?

2. The second row leather captains chairs in the Relay.3 should be made as easily removable as the level 2 captain seats are. The Relay.2 seats are a breeze to take out and put back in, the Relay.3 remove differently and can be impossible for a small person to manipulate. (but then again, how many times would someone buy a fully loaded luxury van just to remove the seats?)

The pros: More features are standard than the competition. Quiet, efficient engine, can tow 3000lbs. Soft but solid comfortable suspension and ride.

25 gallon gas tank. Incredible sound system (I thought it was a Bose the 1st time I heard it) Good looks, small profile. Ergonomic and comfortable interior. Tons of safety features.

marx404

We've had ours (Relay 3) since November, we took delivery of the second one the dealer got in. So far we have been quite happy with it. It is much quieter than my 2004 Vue V6 AWD but not nearly as quick. The entertainment system is very nice, but can be confusing. I found the driving position a bit odd, but could find a comfortable adjustment. I am a little disappointed in the internal cargo space, however I may be spoiled since my previous van was a VW Eurovan. Saturn could have stretched the tail 8-12" IMHO. Paul Elliot SJ, CA

Whether you want to agree with CR or not, and many times I don't, there is no evidence that they are nothing but completely independent. Their reviews are not sponsored as you claim. Unfortunately, the Relay aparently is noisy and has a lousy ride compared to the competition. GM basically re-worked an

8 year old platform to produce it and it shows.

By the way my elderly parents bought a Saturn L300 wagon.... one of the last ones available. They wanted a small wagon to hold a walker easily in the back and there are very few choices on the market. They got the V6 with leather and all options with a 2 or 3 thousand dollar rebate because they weren't selling too well. Anyway I've owned Toyotas, Subarus, Chryslers, a Chevy, Fords and some others but I cannot believe how poorly handling and noisy the L300 is. And the V6 is weaker than many four's I've owned. I've probably put more miles on it then he has over the last year and if this is the best GM can do in a medium size car they might as well give up.

We're in the market for a minivan, so I checked them all out at the San Jose Auto Show last month. The Relay looked pretty good, certainly GM's best effort on a minivan, but it was not up to the standard of Odyssey or Sienna.

Down sides of the Relay are mainly in the safety and performance areas.

Side-curtain airbags not available, and front seat side airbags an extra cost option. On all the Odyssey's, the curtain air-bags and side airbags are standard, while you can get them on all but the CE version of the Sienna at extra cost (included in the XLE Limited).

Acceleration that is okay, but not nearly as good as the Odyssey, and a little worse than the Sienna (which itself is barely adequate). Despite the poorer performance, the fuel economy is slightly worse on the Relay, though not by a lot.

Odyssey

0-60: 6.4 MPG: 19/25

Sienna

0-60: 8.1 MPG: 19/26

Relay

0-60: 9.7 MPG: 18/24

Not sure how much the Relay acutally sells for, but it would be an okay deal at around $20K. I checked CarsDirect, which tends to be on the high side, and the Relay shows up at $23,375, the Odyssey LX goes for $25,010, and the Sienna CE goes for around $22,500 (this is for Southern California). Personally, I like the Sienna better than the Odyssey, and it's rated higher for safety.

Again, not sure of how much the dealer will haggle on the Relay, or what incentives are in place, but $23,375 is too high, when you can get a Sienna for $900 less, and an Odyssey for $1600 more (you'll save far, far more than this in resale value with the Odyssey, since Hondas have resale value beyond all reason!).

Check out Consumer Reports. They're the best source for unbiased information about vehicles, since they don't accept any advertising. Most of the other automobile magazines, and consumer magazines, base their review on the quantity of advertising that the company does, while Consumer Reports isn't afraid to tell the truth.

Of course it's way too early to know about long term reliability on the Relay, but as a brand, Saturn is just about in the middle of the pack, a bit above average ("

")and of course far below Toyota or Honda. The Odyssey was rated as themost dependable minivan in the 2004 study. The Relay and the Sienna are made in the United States, the Odyssey is made in Canada. The Sienna has 90% domestic content, I don't know the percentage on the Relay (Ion is 85%) or the Odyssey (North American built Accords have 97%). I've never considered Canadian-built or Mexican-built cars to be domestics, despite the convoluted domestic content laws.

In summary, you might wait a year if you want a Relay, and see if they offer the curtain airbags and a more powerful engine.

quote: In summary, you might wait a year if you want a Relay, and see if they offer the curtain airbags and a more powerful engine.

Of all the things said so far, this I agree with the most. This is a 1st year mode, who knows what yr 2 will bring. As far as the Relay engine, can you say "NAFTA"? Im quite embarrassed to tell ppl that the engine is made in Mexico. The remaining parts are supposedly made and assembled in Doraville, GA., Saturns newer plant.

I too would like to see a more powerful engineand standard side airbags on both 2 and 3 models. DVD and rear AC controls could be seperated and simplified. Maybe next year. As I said before, in my experience so far, despite some shortcomings, the Relay has been doing well and is a strong competitor in this market against the competitors, especially at the price according to my customers.

marx404

"Art" wrote in news:uYaOd.6939$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Fwiw, we bought a LW200 with the 4 cylinder and manual 5-speed. With the money saved on the manual transmission we opted for the leather interior with heated seats. It was all built to order for us back in

2001.

I won't say we have not had some trouble with it, and it's short production run means tlented service mechanics are rare but it is a great car. Plenty of power, fairly fast, great mileage, quiet (comapred to other Saturns), and drives well on mountain roads and slick terrain.

Although previously owned two SL2's and a SW2, and my MIL owning three SC2's, it isn't my favorite Saturn (the SW2 takes that trophy) - it is a very good car.

I thought the VUE had too high a center of gravity - though I also preferred driving a VUE to the Lexus RX300 (huh, go figure).

Do I like where Saturn is going now? Nope, I think they missed their market. Maybe they are trying to expand - or maybe they are trying to shft with their demographic; the standard equipment on the Relay is cool, and nicely priced -- but Saturn is approaching that level of detailing and finish where they will lose.

If I could afford either the RX300 or the VUE AWD which do you think I would pick? The Lexus becuase we are generally a more vain society than a practical one; so what if I liked the VUE's handling better.

Same for the Relay. It isn't designed for larger folks - none of Saturns are really. In fact the LW200 is the first car that my 6' frame fits well into, but I have still hit my head on the door jamb climbing in/out once or twice.

The Relay is a few days late to the mini-van market, and a lot short on pieces that count. They have the entertainment system and cool storage pockets, but the road noise will make it a pain to constantly adjust the volume. And the storage pockets are unuseable if you carry nearly ANYTHING else in the vehicle becuase there just isn't the cargo space.

Actually if you are willing to remove the seats it has the most cargo space, according to Consumer Reports review.

Actually plants in Mexico are putting out many reliable cars these days.

Thanks for the review. Is there any reason to hope that Aura will be better or that Saturn will offer any kind of wagon ever again?

Ron Herfurth

94SL1

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:44:14 GMT, someone posing as Art donned fireproof bloomers and chisled in the wall:

Anybody remember the Adobe?

...German Engineering and Mexican Know-how creating the first car to break the $200 barrier...

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:38:08 -0000, someone posing as Dan Duncan donned fireproof bloomers and chisled in the wall:

Saw it in the showroom while buying my Vue last month. It seemed okay, but looked much like an updated Venture/Silhouette. It felt small inside and not as well built as my '02 Kia Sedona. Reading the specs it has the same HP and engine size as my Sedona, but I'm guessing that it doesn't have the Honda engine like I do on my Vue.

I sat in the drivers seat and it felt a bit cramped (I'm 6'4") but more or less okay. (Give me a Suburban anyday over these newer small cars/vans/trucks.) Overall, I like the features/looks of my Sedona better than the Relay, and it costs several thousand less.

Well, I agree with alot of what you ppl are saying about the Relay. And yep, I remember the Adobe, (wasnt that slo a SNL skit too?) lol.

As with 1st yr models, there are always bugs to work out and features to change ie: the '05 ION is finally a viable car to drive, w/ over 800 changes to it for this yr. model making it a better car then previous yrs. (still needs a few little fixes though, but a better model overall). Perhaps by yr

2 or 3 the Relay will mature and necessary items such as standard side curtain or seat-side airbags will be on ALL Relays.

btw- the Relay IS a rebadged and reworked Venture/Terrazza/Montana, GM is cross-branding many of thier models. Doesnt mean that they are all exactly the same each has thier own personality.

marx404

My pet peeve: I always wonder why nobody mentions the terrible gas mileage these large SUV's (like the Relay) have. it costs a bundle over a year's time. These cars are clearly not economical. I have a 4-cylinder Vue, which gets better mileage than the Relay, yet I wince at every fillup.

The Sienna and Honda actually get respectable mileage.

The Relay is not an SUV, nor does it get the terrible gas mileage that large SUVs get.

Saturn's page says the Relay gets 18 mpg city and 24 mpg highway which seems terrible to me. Are you saying that there are vehicles that get worse?

ron 94SL1 and waiting for the next Saturn wagon