MY SISTER BOUGHT HER FIRST SUBARU IN 2002 AND IT HAS BEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISSAPOINTMENT.
5 OF THE DEFECT ITEMS YOU DETAILED BELOW SHE HAS EXPERIENCED ALREADY AND HER DEALER SERVICE AND SUBARU OF AMERICA HAVE BE ABSOLUTLEY NO HELP OR SUPPORT WHATSOEVER AND WANT TO CHARGE HER MORE MONEY TO FIX CLAIMING THEY ARE NOT WARRANTY ITEMS.
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT AND DON'T LET NOBODY TELL YOU OTHERWISE....SUBARU BUILDS SHIT CARS THAT ARE WORSE MADE THAN THE UTTER GARBAGE THAT GENERAL MOTORS BUILT IN THE 1970'S.
ANYONE READING THIS WHO IS CONTENPLATING BUYING A SUBARU, PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF MUCH TROUBLE AND GO BUY A TOYOTA OR A HONDA INSTEAD!
SUBARU AND PARENT CO. FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES BUILDS AND DESIGNS GARBAGE THROW-AWAY CARS AND ALWAYS WILL BE GARBAGE CARS THAT ARE UTTER JUNK. CONSUMER REPORTS IS LYING THRU THEIR TEETH IN THEIR RELIBALITY REPORTS ALSO WHEN IT COMES TO SUBARU.
FINALLY THEIR USA HEADQUARTERS IN *CHERRY HILL, NJ* IS STAFFED WITH BAD-MANNERED IDIOTS AND DOLTS WHO'S JOB IS TO SELL/SHILL YOU CARS AND AFTER YOU BUY THEM THEY GIVE NO HELP AND STICK YOU UP-THE-ASSHOLE WITH EMPTY PROMISES OF HELP AND TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE.
SUBARU AND PARENT COMPANY FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES IS THE
And what is the "right stuff?" Take a look at the van in this guy's pix:
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He goes thru a rather extensive process with his $35 kit of polishing pads, etc. The lenses on my Toyota were worse than his van when I got it. I'd used Meguiar's Mirror Glaze (the plexiglass/plastic convertible top window "classic") but it didn't do the trick. I took white polishing compound to one side, and it came out pretty good, but was a ton of work. Then the guy at the auto parts store recommended Meguiar's Plastx. What the heck--it can't hurt. In less than 15 minutes of gentle rubbing (like waxing the paint) the other lens looked better than the one I'd worked so hard on. By comparison, both are at least as good as this fellow's pictures of his Nissan after what seems like more work than most of us would do.
Now, these are the fluted polycarbonate lenses that have been replaced with the "bug eyes," but the point is it doesn't take a lot of work to keep things in good shape, while it does take a lot more to undo neglect or damage caused by time. If I read your post correctly, you first became aware of the "problem" at 1500 miles, when you were told to polish the covers, and you now have 34k miles. Is that correct? If so, HAVE you been polishing the lens covers? And if so, are they maintaining their level of "degradation" or getting worse? I agree you can't keep polishing them forever before they're gone, but by then, maybe there will be some in the junk yards for far less than the dealer wants for them.
Now, since this thread started, I've been looking for bug-eyed Subies, and haven't seen any with the damage you describe. Yet. Which raises a question in my mind: have you identified any possible environmental influences in your area (or even in your maintenance regime, like using Windex on plastic? The ammonia plays hard on some plastics) that could be damaging the plastic? In my area of SoCal, it's hot a lot (over 100 deg F for a fair amount of the year), we have a steady stream of gravel trucks on several major commuter freeways, and frequent winds with attendant sandstorms. There are certain types of identifiable damage from these factors. My plastic parts dry out, my glass (and some paint) are blasted. Most commuters I know locally have lost track of the number of windshields and glass headlights (the few that still have 'em) they've replaced. My buddy, OTOH, parks his vehicle near LAX during the day and outside near the beach at night, and it suffers a completely different type of damage, chemically induced from jet fuel and salt air. His glass looks perfect, his plastic's not dried, cracked or discolored, but his paint looks like the devil in just a coupla years. And then there's his wife's Toyota, nearly the same age as mine, that's garaged at night and lives in a covered parking garage during the day. It suffers none of the damage either her husband's or my vehicles suffer. Using your theory of proper materials, he could argue his paint's defective, I could argue my plastic parts are defective, and his wife could argue the materials used in her car are just right.
Now what if she were the rep investigating a warranty claim from either of us? See the problem?
Best of luck with any contact with either Subaru or the Feds!
Meguiar's specifically recommended #10 and #17 which is a cleaner and a polish. They also said that there is a finite number of times you can do this as each clean and polish removes the surface of the plastic.
miles, when you were told >to > polish the covers, and you now have 34k miles. Is that correct? If so, HAVE you been polishing the lens >covers?
No I have not. Pursuing satisfaction from Subaru I didn't want them to deny coverage based on doing a non-authorized repair to the headlight lenses. When the dealer told me to polish the lenses I told them to do it under warranty and they refused as it was a non Subaru authorized procedure.
haven't seen any with the >damage you describe. Yet. Which raises a question in my mind: have you identified any possible >environmental influences in your area
Feedback I'm getting from Sube owners all over the US confirms the same problem to some degree. Altitude, humidity, mileage or temperature doesn't seem to matter. All seem to start showing haze at around a year. Hand washing, car washing, no washing seems to have no effect one way or the other. In a garage or outside seems to matter. Sure, the snow states cars have gravel pits in the lenses but that is NOT the problem I'm talking about.
Looking at the lens under magnification doesn't seem to bear out atmosphere abrasion (gravel/stones) as it is a uniform haze. The regional Subaru rep is well aware of the problem and Subaru has specifically EXCLUDED lenses from any of their extended warranties. They know they have a problem and offer no solution.
I guess the old adage that "you can be part of the problem or part of the solution still rings true.
Um, first of all those of us reading this post ALREADY own a Subaru. Second you are wasting your time complaining about reliability in a group with cars that have easily passed 200, 300, and 400 thousand miles and are still running strong.
I don't know what "Subaru odf America" company you are talking about, but the one I deal with replaced the radio (6 CD changer included) in my '04 OBW because of intermittent power-on problems (twice in 18,000 miles). The dealer couldn't replicate it- but no problem - they took my word for it, and SOA authorized a new radio.
I think it helps to be polite and reasonable when you call and not sound LIKE A RAVING LUNATIC. Oh, yes, they also picked up the cost of a rental car for me for the day I had to leave it in the shop to get the problem diagnosed. I simply asked if they would do that. Nicely.
Don't worry. I think we've just got a couple new trolls is all. Sort of inevitable I suppose, what with the popularity of the WRX. Five years ago when I began looking at Subaru and would bring them up in conversations, people would respond with "Subar...who?" or something along those lines. Nowadays when I tell someone I drive a Subaru, I immediately get asked "Really? Isn't that the really fast blue car with the big scoop on the hood?" Mild to moderate disappointment follows when I explain that Subaru builds less intense cars as well, and mine is nothing more than a "first" Outback. An auto industry milestone as the first "crossover" vehicle, but nothing more exciting than that. :)
Sorry to hear about your lights. I've never seen that on such a new car, from anyone - even General Motors. Perhaps you've driven through something that damaged the plastic? Just an idea.
At 169,000 miles, the headlights on my Outback are the best of any vehicle I've ever been in. One of them is original, one was replaced due to a crash about 4 years ago. The original one is starting to show signs of yellowing due to age, but both headlights still project a true and brilliant beam no matter the outside conditions.
Yup, me and everyone else who has a bug-eye Impreza/WRX that has this problem all drove through a cloud of "headlight lens killer". Subaru owner's aren't as stupid as Subaru thinks we are.
Outback's don't have the same headlight lens configuration as the bug-eye Impreza. Curiously though, the 04/05 Impreza/WRX has a different shaped headlight assembly than the 02/03 bug-eye but the same plastic material for the lens. I saw an 04 that was about a year old and it was starting to haze.
Yellowing due to age at 170k miles would be fine with me. Hazing over at 1500 miles is not acceptable.
Continuing our previous note on environmental causes, this may sound a bit silly, but I wonder if Subaru uses some kind of a coating on the plastic (like those used on eyeglass lenses) that's coming off, exposing a "different" kind of material underneath?
I took a look at Meguiar's site to see about the cleaner/polishes you mentioned and didn't find them for clear plastic care (but my browser was being grumpy, too.) One thing I did note was the description on the bottle of the Plastx I mentioned before that says it contains "highly water resistant polymers" to "provide long lasting durable protection." The label also says it contains "vital conditioning oils" which "restore optical clarity to clear plastics." Kinda sounds like a combo of an Armor-All type product and a wax? Nothing's said about UV, though.
Now we all know the copywriters can go a bit overboard on some of their claims. Though I've never known Meguiar's to sell snake oil, these claims are what made me wonder about the coating idea. ?????
It may well be a "coating" problem or it may be the plastic itself. Regardless it is Subaru's responsibility to provide parts that perform properly during their service life. No more and no less.
It starts as a very light haze kinda like condensation on the outside of the lens toward the top (turnsignal part) and then grows down into the headlight area. It seems to take a little longer than a year in service for the hazing to start to show up. I'd keep an eye on it if I were you.
"Steve" wrote: | | It starts as a very light haze kinda like condensation on the outside of | the lens toward the top (turnsignal part) and then grows down into the | headlight area. It seems to take a little longer than a year in service | for the hazing to start to show up. I'd keep an eye on it if I were you.
Your warnings and generalizations are getting old, and in fact, you are the first person I've seen mention having this problem across the newsgroup and other forums.
I have a 2002 WRX Wagon (USA), purchased Dec 2001. It has 39,000 miles, and was kept inside for the first year and outside since, but cleaned and most importantly waxed periodically. It still looks great.
There is no hazing whatsoever on my lenses, in spite of it being outside so much in central Texas. A few bug guts perhaps, but nothing with the lens material itself.
You meant to say some instead of all, right? My '02 'bug eyed' WRX has never had the luxury of a garage and they're still very clear. Abraded a bit from sand blasting, but clear. It was built in Japan Nov. 2001 and I bought in the USA in Feb. 2002. 55xxx miles.
I'm not doubting that it has happened to your car and to others as well, but the word 'all' may be too strong. I wonder if there was a running change in material or supplier. I have seen some cars with very bad cases of hazing - enough that I wondered if the light output fell below legal standards. But I haven't seen a Subaru with a case that bad yet.
Last week I was in a fender bender #^%$*)(&(! and one of the headlight lenses cracked open. I looked at the cross-section and it appeared to be uniformly clear.
I've lived with the car mostly in Boston, MA. There is some but not a huge amount of air pollution there. I see a lot more smog in Phoenix, AZ, but I haven't been here long enough to know if that makes any change in lens clarity. Have most of the hazing lens reports come from owners in high pollution areas?
You could say that. However, most of the so-called innovations in modern vehicles have been around before, but for various reasons weren't successful at the time. This includes such things as hybrid powertrains, deactivating cylinders, and headlights that aim where you steer. They've all been around before, but general improvements in technology as well as computer control have made them viable once again.
The crossover vehicle segment is supposed to appeal to people who would like some of the go-anywhere abilities of a truck/SUV, but with the ride, handling, and fuel economy of a car. In short, it should have at least SOME of the best of both worlds. Now, I've never driven an AMC vehicle, let alone the Eagle, but based on the technology that was around at the time, my guess is that the handling of that car was more truck-like than car-like. Correct me if I'm wrong, and you indeed owned or at least drove one, but given the above definition of a crossover vehicle, I'm not sure that the Eagle would really count as a modern "crossover" vehicle.
I've seen the Eagle mentioned in at least a few articles about the various crossover vehicles, and in those articles Subaru is generally credited with being the originator of the segment, as the term wasn't around back during the days of the AMC Eagle, or even Subaru's own GL and DL 4x4's. :)
I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant that perhaps there might be some local environmental conditions that could accelerate the yellowing. I saw a bug-eye WRX at work this afternoon and a glance at the headlights revealed no noticable yellowing.
Interesting. I guess another possibility would be a lower grade of plastic was being used by the supplier. I'm betting those lights aren't made in-house, but by a supplier instead. ALL automakers are routinely trying to get parts from their suppliers for less and less money, and if their supplier can't deliver, then they go somewhere else. It might be that Subaru switched to a cheaper supplier for the lenses, or that they started strangling their supplier for cheaper parts at some point, and they cut corners to a lower grade of plastic just to make ends meet. At least that's how it happens here in Michigan, and I'm sure that things aren't too much different in Japan.
Just FYI, I'm not doubting your story, I'm just as puzzled as you are and personally have never seen a car less than 5 years old with yellowing lenses, regardless of mileage.
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