Debriefing of failed Subaru purchase.

Hello all,

I would like to debrief with everyone and get outside input regarding my experience of 'almost' purchasing a 2001 Outback Wagon Limited Edition with

78,000 miles from a local large dealership. The asking price for this vehicle was initially $15,900. Initially after inspecting everything over top to bottom the vehicle itself looked in very good shape. Before taking it out for a test drive I asked the salesman what the price was and he quoted me the $15,900 as I had expected. I asked him "What if I wrote you a check for $13,000?" He shot a pre-programmed response back of "No deal." I pretty much expected that so I pulled out the internet special price listed on AutoTrader for this vehicle which is $13,200. I could see a bit of the look in his face that I just am not the standard gullible impulse buyer. He mumbled that that was the internet price and was the absolute lowest they could go. During the test drive I pulled off and went through the glove compartment and noticed that there were receipts and even an Extended Warranty paper for 6yr/80k mile that was in the name of the previous owner.

After the test drive we went into the office and sat down where I offered $12,500 in a check on the table. He still said no deal and began probably what is a scripted or preprogrammed response of "I'm loosing money on this...". I decided to throw him out of that loop and started discussing a trade in of my current Ford Explorer. I told him that it was a `93 Ford Explorer XLT 4WD, 4D, Auto, 125k, and he went over to the appraiser. I noticed he sat down with the guy for a good 3 minutes, came back and said they'd offer "a couple hundred" for it at most. I told him that this very same dealership, the very same salesman that was standing outside offered me $2100 on it 3 months ago. I could tell that threw a cog in the mental gears of this salesman and I asked if we could use the computer in the lobby to verify the value and he went to KBB.com.

I had him type in every option/feature/etc as I stood over his shoulder (hopefully breathing down his neck would help - but didn't). Anyway the end result was that the trade in value of my Explorer is $2700. He saw that, looked somewhat surprised and went back over to the appraisers office again. He was there much shorter this time, came back and mentioned that it's not a true 'cash to cash' deal. I asked why that makes any difference (being smart alec here) and he got to the point where he said that it may be worth that, but they will not take it. The appraiser came over and also voiced the same thought that they were comfortable for selling the Outback for $13,200 and absolutely could not or would not go lower and that they can sleep at night doing that.

That pretty much summed up me decision to walk especially after their refusal to offer any sort of parts/labor warranty for the vehicle since it was an "As Is" vehicle. What is the consensus here? Obviously this was a jerk of a salesman but what could I or should I have done differently? I would like everyone's input so that next time I go elsewhere to look for a Subaru I can do something so as not to have the salesman stonewall me on every turn.

Brad

Reply to
Bradley Walker
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Sell you trade then walk in without it. You'll be in a much better position.

Reply to
Bob H

I would like to do that, but being that I am self employeed I first lack the time to do that, but second and most importantly I need a working vehicle 7 days a week to keep me on the road working with clients. A day or never the less a week of non driving time severely hurts my ability to do business and work so I can pay for another vehicle. The lovely catch 22.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

umm you offered them $13000, they said $13200, and you walked?? or was that $13,200 plus your truck?

Reply to
Punch

I don't think you could have done much more in that situation. When you are trying to deal with somebody who only wants to pull the wool over your eyes there isn't much you can do but walk.

It's sad so many car salesmen are like that. The goos news is that some aren't, but it's really tough facing all the jerks while searching.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

They were asking more than their internet listing, but agreed to sell it at that price. Your lowball offer was rejected.

They didn't want your used car. What they offered you "3 months ago" is irrelevant. The KBB.com data is irrelevant.

They refused to offer an warranty / discount on parts. I've had the same thing happen to me.

Sometimes horse trading is like that. Sometimes you walk away with a horse, sometimes you just walk away.

Reply to
P T

Brad, I have walked in with printouts from KBB.com for each vehicle (the trade-in AND the new/used vehicle). Initially I didn't show them to anyone until the runaround process began, but that's pretty good ammo for you, if you really want the other car.

Also, while you were in the glove box, did you think to copy down the previous owner's name and address, and/or any of the stations or dealers the car had been serviced by? I think I might just call and see what kind of work had been done previously. Sneaky, but perfectly legal, especially if they left that info in the vehicle.

-Karen in AZ-

Reply to
Karen in AZ

Why not just buy a new car? If you have 13-15k the payments on another

5or 6 k will be negligible and you will have a car for many years.
Reply to
bigjim

Hi,

Am I safe in assuming the Explorer still gets you around? If so, you're the guy in the driver's seat for negotiations. I've always maintained the position, and made it very clear to car salesmen, that:

a) YOU have to sell THIS vehicle

b) I DON'T have to buy THIS vehicle, and

c) THIS is how much I'm willing to spend on a vehicle today. If it's THIS one, let's get to the paperwork. If not, let's not waste each other's time.

Then walk if necessary. Come back a day or two later and see if the car's still there, and, if so, make a second offer, slightly LOWER than your original.

Don't discuss trade-in values as a separate item--make your offer a combo of cash and trade, based on how much cash differential you can handle. For example, if you think the car you want to buy is worth $13k, and you've got $10k in your pocket, that pretty much fixes the value of the trade at $3k, right? (Obviously you've gotta do your homework to establish realistic values of all items involved! And keep values the same, for example, don't try to BUY the new car at wholesale while TRADING your old one at retail value.)

Car salesmen I've known tell me the "differential" buyer is their toughest nut to crack. I don't know how true that is (we all know how truthful car salesmen tend to be!), but I've never paid more than I wanted to for a car after learning that.

Good luck!

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

If you really want this Subaru, why not buy it and then just sell the Explorer on your own? Just an idea. Seems like it would sidestep the trade-in dispute.

Reply to
lkreh

Good training kept him from having you thrown out.

Reply to
nothermark

$13,000 + $2700 trade in for the explorer, I even offered to take just $2000 flat for trade in. They balked.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Please see above, my budget is around the 15k mark max. Why pay more if I'm still driving a Subaru that will get me from point A to point B and just have a fancier interior?

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Karen - Yes I did. :) Actually the person originially bought the car in Colorado and then moved to Virginia. However unless I could get another $2000 down on the listed internet price considering that my explorer is worth that much, I'm not even considering going back there. It's like walking in, bending over, and asking them to take advantage of a person.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

It would, however being I'm running a business and focusing my efforts and finances towards that, even a few thousand that are temporarily gone till the explorer was to sell, could put me in a business pinch. Plus all of that aside, that's just an assumption that the Explorer would sell. Being the whole TV/radio/ad marketing is high mpg on vehicles, many people are trading in SUV's and trucks at an astounding rate and barely buying any.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

You will have a new car with warranty. The new interiors suck IMO but its still better than paying 15k for a used car with who knows what kind of problems. I hope some sucker will pay 15k in 2009 for my 04 outback that cost 19+k new!!!! I will be able to get the new toyota fj cruiser!!!!!!

Reply to
bigjim

I'm not sure where you live at, but the cheapest ANY Outbacks are in this region are $25,000 for the 2.5i's. $29,000 for the 2.5XT's. While warranty is great, it's also even better to have a good friend who just graduated from a high performance mechaninc's school and who does labor work for free (we are snowboarding buddies and I'll cover his lift tickets) when I need it. Plus a car that has been excellently maintained and continues to be excellently maintained with an expert mechanic at my call pretty much nullifies any enormous and outlandish expense of a vehicle brand new at full price. Besides, nearly doubling the price of what that vehicle is now for one that is a few years nearer with nothing that doesn't justify that price tag besides a warranty (which I could get for $1000 in aftermarket) doesn't make sound business or financial sense.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Bradley Walker wrote: ... that's just an assumption that the Explorer would sell. Being

Maybe that's why the Explorer wasn't worth much to the dealer (which seems to be true...)? No reason they should pay more, in that case.

Might be worth getting another firm price on the Explorer, from another local dealer? At least, that would help confirm what it's real value is.

Larry Van Wormer

Reply to
Larry Van Wormer

I hate to play the pessimist, but as Larry suggested, you're going to have problems selling/trading-in a '93 Explorer. The perception and reality is that it's a 13 year old american car that gets poor mileage and has alleged safety issues. The dealer was probably looking at it as a vehicle that will sit on his lot forever. Even if you can only get a couple hundred of bucks for it, you'll feel better about it if you shop it around a little. If a 13 year old Subaru is worth about a thousand bucks, your explorer is going to be worth even less.

Obviously, the other option is to drive the explorer into the ground, but I understand your reluctance to use it as a work vehicle while doing so.

Reply to
lkreh

This is something I forgot to add in my initial post and how it escaped me, I don't know. Anyway I'm curious to know if this event that happened was illegal or simply unethical. When I was inside the dealership with this salesman and I was making and standing firm on my $11,500-$12,000 offer, the salesman made the comment. "I probably shouldn't do this, but if you cut me the check for $11,000 on the side, I'll give you this vehicle right here and now...". For those of you wondering if I even considered it...not for a moment. I just am curious if his offering that was violating rules/regulations/laws, or if it was nothing more than him being so stupid to think I would write him that check and even expect to get the car?

Brad

Reply to
Bradley Walker

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