Debriefing of failed Subaru purchase.

As opposed to what? Shipping it to France and back?

The dealer thinks you are dumb and will fall for some BS line that makes it seem "under the table". You should go find a different car from a different dealer.

Around where I live, the 13k price for that milage is still about 2k too high.

It's not like it's the electric company or anything, you can shop around. Do it, the dealer is being a dick, or testing his new training or something....

Reply to
Ratatooie
Loading thread data ...

I've pretty much planned on this from the getgo, which is why I'm looking for or asking for lower prices on the vehicles to begin with. If a salesman is getting on avg a 35% commission on a $13,200 vehicle (seems to be avg of what cars.com and Autotrader are showing for the same vehicle/mileage), thats $4620 in his pocket. I in no way think it's outlandish or unfair for me to ask $11,500 - $12,000 because the salesman is still getting paid, the dealer is moving an inventory item, and everyone wins. Maybe it's because I have morals, ethics, or because I grew up in a family that counted every penny because the family brought in $300 a week from the factory, but having a salemans commission go from $4620 to $4000 is nothing short of an egotistical greedy person not willing to have compassion or a true interest in another human being that he considers a 'customer'. Thats not how I have run my business nor is it how I'd ever so much as think of treating another person.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

much snippage...

You'll almost always pay more at a dealership for a used car than from an individual. If you somehow

*need* to buy from a dealership, beating him down to $13.2k is probably the best you could ask for.

If you have some time, read this:

formatting link

-jim

Reply to
Jim Stewart

What makes you think the salesman is getting 35% of the purchase price? If he's lucky he gets 35% of the dealer's profit on the vehicle. At their "internet special" price of $13.2k they are probably going to net $1200-$1500 dollars on the vehicle, depending of course what it cost them to get it.

I understand your frustration, because I don't enjoy dealing with used car salesmen. But face it, the market for SUVs has taken a shit-kicking in the last year, and you can throw your KBB values out the window. No dealer will give you that much for a 13 year old SUV, when they probably couldn't even retail it for $2500.

Reply to
Dean

I was told to never even talk about the trade-in or even let them know you HAVE a trade-in until after the price of the new car is written in stone. Treat each as a separate deal. So that's the main thing I would have done differently. Have you ever looked at

formatting link
? I highly recommend reading the site in its entirety before attempting to negotiate again.

Reply to
Deb

They won't keep that car on their lot - likely go to the auction house and wind up on a tote-the-noter on the 'old highway' side of town.

I also agree on the salesman's commission. Probably a few to several hundred bucks is it.

If the Explorer has been well taken care of, etc. It would be better sold - if even at a discount - or given to a family memeber or someone's college kid.

Take a look in the newspaper at the car sales for similar vehicles to yours - be honest about its shortcomings if any - and figure most folks selling a car in the paper will likely take 10-20% under the asking price. Or pretend your an insurance agaent, call a couple of used car lots, describe the car and ask what it would likely SELL for off their lot.

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

You might also see if your library or bookstore has

"Don't Get Taken Every Time" by Remar Sutton

it's educational and amusing.

-rick-

Reply to
-rick-

Where do you live? The estimated KBB on this assumming AT is $15.8k around where I live. So a $13k price would be good. I would really like to purchase my next car there if its close enough to me.

Reply to
Theodrake

Yes I have read that site top to bottom since summer.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Brad,

I applaud you. You knew what you were doing before you went there. You brushed up on the latest 'salesman tricks'. You had a firm idea of what you could afford, knew what car you wanted and how much it was worth. My viewpoint is that, similar to what Rick stated above, you don't owe that salesman anything. Especially if you feel that he's doing something tricky that you just don't feel comfortable with, you don't even owe him simple courtesy.

What I try to do, in addition to 'arming myself' by reading books like Deb mentioned and which you did very well, is I try to remember that even though buying a car is bartering, the difference is that the car doesn't belong to that guy. It's just a commodity for the dealership. On the other hand, your money is hard earned. If you don't buy THEIR car, you're not out a thing. On the other hand, they are losing money every minute a car remains on their lot.

My mindset is that KBB (or if you were able to get your hands on the most recent BLACK BOOK) are just tools for you to use; however, the figure that you've decided is your max price is just that.

"I'll give you $xx,xxx for the car."

"Mr Salesman, you can give me whatever extended warranties and undercoating and fuzzy dice you want to, but you won't get a cent more than my offer."

My offer, if they choose to accept it, doesn't include my trade-in. I don't discuss trade-ins until after we've made a deal. I don't use their financing. I arrive on the lot already pre-approved by my bank. I don't have any collateral nor money down. It's purely money for car.

Questions: I'm curious why you didn't respond to his 'under the table' offer with a smile and a counter question of, "Alright but in that case, it'll be written for $10k." -I'm imagining myself in that situation. I don't think I'd have been as well-mannered as you. I'm absolutely not a jerk, but I have no issue at all in volleying with some amateur salesman. Also I'm curious if they've called you back yet with a lower price.

Pat

Reply to
gpatmac

I agree but also don't make a point of telling them that before absolutely necessary. Let them assume they stand to profit from the financing kickback, extended warrantee, etc. when nailing down the price.

Reply to
-rick-

Pat,

Thank you very much for the pointers, thoughts, and comments you wrote. My goal before going in there was to be well armed, however I know being that this is my first large car purchase. However no matter how armed I can be, just being finesse with the whole negotiating is something I definately need to work on as I get older and do more dealings with car salesman. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't start my own dealership, have a handful of salesman paid via hourly wages for selling and for other duties - plus a bonus for cars sold. I wonder if it'd really make a difference?

Anyway, back to the thought at hand. The thing for me is as others made mention in this thread of sort of heckling me for not taking the $13,200 offer. Yes I could have afforded it, but being I run a business I want to be financially frugal with my money and at the same time, there wasn't nor did they want to offer a 3mon/3000 mi warranty for the "just in cases" in life. I felt more comfortable in the low 12's unless they were to offer something in addition to the car and it's $13,200 price like warranty, new tires, etc, etc. Also thank you very much for the thought regarding not mentioning a trade in until the deal is hammered out. But that does bring up one question. It seems that this dealership (and probably many more) base their acceptance of a trade in and it's value based on the current selling price of the vehicle to recoup any profit loss. I.E. if the Outback sells for $15,900, they can take a $1500 trade in and still get $14400 for the Outback. But drop it down to the "internet price" of $13,200 and they start whining about the explorer being totally worthless and of no value and to stop their 'profit bleeding' they accept little or no trade in value. Is there any recommended way to deal with them regarding this roadblock?

I actually did bring up the topic of "Hey I'm glad you want to loose money by not selling this vehicle and letting the inventory movement slow down to a crawl." All I got from that was a sarcastic "No deal." that was said in a very gruff tone. Whether the guy knew I had him cornered or whether it was an amateur salesman, I'm not sure but none of those angles even worked. I think his new favorite line is "No deal." Like you I went pre-approved with a $16,000 max loan from CapitolOne in hand ready to write out a check and kept dropping hints that emphasized "I can pay you right now" to hopefully bait him on his eagerness and willingness to sell the car.

Mind you this is the sale Subaru salesman who has continously called me once or twice a month since last March when possible vehicle matches came across the lot to inform me and I could sense the eagerness in his voice to sell me a vehicle. Also at the same time I kept emphasizing that me and my business needs a vehicle, I befriended him from the standpoint to use him (OK I know that sounds bad, but while being friendly I limited what I said and what he really knew about me and my intentions). Ironically though since Saturday no calls or emails have come in with a lower offer to the low 12's. Not even a peep from them. I get the feeling that they view me as too smart of a consumer and that they want nothing to do with me, even if it means refusing to sell me the vehicle so they can let it cost them money daily in the lot so someone gets it for sticker of $15,900.

On the other side of things, I did alot of searching on AutoTrader this past week and came across a dealership from Northern VA that had nearly the same identical car. Nearly 30k less mileage, same color, features, etc. Their asking price is $15,700 and the salesman asked regarding a trade in so I have discussed that via email. I get the feeling if they come back with a $2000+ trade in offer, it would only lower the pricetag to $13,700 with no reduction in price from negotiations. I probably wouldn't get that vehicle due to the driving distance and my lack of free time to get away from customers, but I figure it's worth a learning experience and seeing where it could go. If anything I could possibly use the above dealerships internet price of $13,200 to counter any $13,700 offer that may come my way. Who knows, a low to mid 12 something may be possible yet.

Bradley

To answer your question

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Bradley, Just buy a new car and stop whining about ysed car dealers. They suck and try to rip you off . We all know that. You can either get crushed or get a new car and start out fresh. The dealer probably gave

11k as a trade and they are selling for 15k. If they wont sell for 13k go to another dealer. Its wrong to be stuck on a particular car . That is a recipe for a ripoff. Try other AWD makes/models. With the GM red tag pricing you can get a Torrent/equinox awd for $22-23k new. A new car is always a better deal than a used one
Reply to
bigjim

Please see above, new cars are out of the option. They are financially out of the budget range so more talk of me getting a new car will just be ignored as trolling.

What's wrong with going after a particular car/model? If it works well or in my case works exceptionally well to meet the needs I have then I will stick with it till I find one so I don't have "buyers remorse" later wishing I would have gotten something I didn't.

Reply to
Bradley Walker

Do you work for GM buddy? Yeah, the new car is a better deal until three years after you pay $22k it is worth $10k.

I learned my lesson after buying a brand new car in 2001, then eating several thousand bucks in depreciation when I traded it in on a year-old Forester a few years later. I will never buy brand new again. Unless I win a multi-million dollar lottery.

That said, I do agree that you shouldn't get hung up on a particular model, unless it is something so ridiculously common that it is easy to find a dozen different examples.

Reply to
Dean

three years after you pay $22k it is worth $10k.

Reply to
bigjim

Depreciation will absolutely matter after it's paid off. For example, had your Trooper been a 4runner you may have gotten twice the money. For example, Chevy Impala and Honda Accord carry about the same sticker price. Five years and 75,000 miles later, the Accord will still fetch a hell of a lot more than the Impala. How could that not matter? What you are suggesting isn't financially sound. I appreciate your opinion, but you know what they say about opinions.

J
Reply to
j

So what you're saying is, you bargained them down to almost the exact price you were initially looking for, and decided to walk anyway?

Hrm...

Reply to
k. ote

Bradley, where are you located? I am in Baltimore, Md., and I just bought a 2003 Outback wagon (not the Limited) with 52K miles for $14,400. There are lots and lots of Subaru Outbacks out there. I was specifically looking for a 5-speed, so my choices were much more limited, but I saw three of them for almost exactly the same price and same mileage at a couple of dealerships around Baltimore. I bought this one from a small used-car dealer, which normally I wouldn't trust, but I had my favorite mechanic examine the car and got his blessing. They were asking $14,800, I offered $14,000 and would have walked away if they starting playing games, but the salesman quickly offered to split the difference. So it was a painless purchase.

The alternator died two days ago, but that's another story.

Zelda

Zelda

Reply to
zelda

Currently I live in the eastern panhandle of WV. For me Baltimore is a matter of driving down Rt 7 to Leesburg, hitting Dulles Tollroad, and finally hitting 495 upto Baltimore. Plus I have a friend that works at RKK Engineering firm in downtown Baltimore.

Could you forward me any info on the cars there?

Reply to
Bradley Walker

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.