Just bought 2006 Outback

Gets mats from 1stsubaru.com. As for the radio , you're S.O.L. You got a good deal. The new model outbacks are not as ergonomic as the 2004 but if you like it great. I doubt I'd buy a current model due to the seats the armrest that blocks the windoe switches and the *^%*%*^ integrated radio.

I sense a little jealousy here. Having had a 2000 OBW and moving up to the 2005 OBW I can say that there is a world of difference between the two as the newer model is better in almost every respect. I brought my winter mats over from the 2000 and the radio is good enough for my needs. Though I agree, the radio in the new car is something you will have to live with.

Ron

needs. Though I agree, the radio in the new car is something you will have to live with.

I'm looking to buy an Outback new or used and the only requirement is it must be a 5spd. However in this region hardly anyone ever gives up an Outback so I've been searching nearly a year since Dec. 04 in pursuit of an

01-04 Outback with no luck. Being that I will need one before winter I found a dealer that has a 2005 brand new 2.5XT which is a 5spd down to $24,900. It's sticker price is $29,999 and based on a few tidbits of information it sounded like the dealer was having a hard time selling it because it is manual transmission.

My intial budget for a vehicle puts me at $20k or less total price, so I'm wondering what are some negotiating techniques that I could use to possibly get that one below $20,000? That is a number I can not budge on at all.

Brad

My deal wasn't as great as what you're trying to do- what I did was get them to take out all accessories, undercoating, etc.

But here's what I did if you care: First weekend- test drove two cars, brought a folder and took notes, asked them specific questions about junk I'd read on the website about the cars- you know- how does the boxer engine work vs the standard V engine? I was also critical of the car's gas mileage, design and color choices to put the other guy in defensive mode. People were eating lunch in the dealership and it was making me hungry, but I barked something like "How can you stand to smell everyone else's food?" you know, knocked the guy off his game all the time.

Once I decided which car I wanted, I got the edmunds invoice price- disregard MSRP and all other BS. Don't expect to go too far below the Edmunds price. Technically Subaru gave me $1000 toward the downpayment so I payed $200 above invoice not $800 below, btu $200 above is a good deal. I preset my loan elsewhere and found out their car buying services- went with the Subaru VIP program, but also investigated United Buying Service.

I found a car I wanted from the same dealership chain way out in the middle of nowhere for hundreds cheaper than a car in the big city where I live. I returned to the dealer with an appointment with the same guy who helped me before- he had invested time and wanted a return on his time. Turns out he already had a customer and had his assistant work with me and he'd stop by periodically. Still meant he was off-kilter because he was juggling 2 and 3 people.

I told him we were very interested, but still liked the color and mileage of a Toyota- never cut a sucker and even break- my wife did an act that she wanted the Toyota, but I wanted the Subaru. My wife took our son to the waiting room to play with the toys. I laid my cards on the table- I liked the cheap car I saw in the ad and could they get it for me or should I drive up there to buy it? Of course the guy was able to match the price. Then I said that was great, showed them the VIP pricing program from Subaru- they gave me a song and dance and I said, I'd be interested in them giving me their dealer maintenance package (every other oil change free + loaner car) free instead of reducing the cost of the car further- he agreed and that was a $370 value I planned to buy just for the loaner (I have my reasons, but you may not agree).

When it came time for junk I balanced between- "My wife's not here, let's skip that and ask her later"- that's the "Missing Man" negotiation technique that kept him off-kilter and they gave up on some of those extras. When my wife came back, I put my son on my lap and when the hard sell people came in, I let him slide off my lap and he obligingly ran back to the TV and of course I followed, returning saying we weren't interested in any packages- they were waiting on me and I became "in control." Apparently my wife comiserated with the female sales manager about parenting and daycare costs- tag-teaming and playing up the husband/wife stereotype. They did jerk me around on my trade, but they offered Blue book for the car and I had no problems with that.

I am a terrible negotiator so this took a lot of practice and determination. There was an article on fool.com that was very useful to prepare. Don't expect miracles, but the end of the month is better than the beginning.

Don

Don, Instead of all that , it's easier to just walk into the dealer with a printout of the exact vehicle you want, tell them youll buy immediately for $200 over invoice. Many large deakers will take it but some may balk. Get up and walk out and try another. I usually have several vehicles in mind when buying. If I cant get a deal on one I'll take one of the others.

Get a forester or baja. Even the invoice on 2.5i outback w/ 5 speed is ~$22,800

Right. I know exactly what you're talking about- 10 years ago they used to say create a fake company purchase order and fax it to dealers and see who bites. This dealer denied to my face that the Edmunds invoice was a valid number (left out destination fee they said) and told me this was wayyy below invoice- never let up on their version of the invoice once. I thought about the "Fax my price and requirements" plan to dealers throughout my area. There aren't many Subaru dealerships convenient to where I live- I mean there are like 10 within a 90 minute drive but only one within 30 minutes- and I got the price I wanted without having to drive for it.

Now a friend claims his cousin tried the fax tactic and no dealer was interested. Don't know if that's true or just a story. I know that a neighbor bought a 2005 Forester in the spring and paid- from what I can tell- $1000+ above invoice and certainly more than I paid for my Outback.

Don

Foresters and Baja's are out, esp the Baja because I need good amounts of cargo room for hauling computer stuff for my business.

I've been looking on edmunds.com for quite some time and can never quite find where the invoice costs are for vehicles.

Check out Toyota Highlander or Ford Escape. Many love the escape and you may be closer to your target price

If you enjoy the game and have the time, then play. I am old enough and have bought enough new that I don't like playing. I do my best to find out invoice on car and assories I want. I find out the dealer holdback amount. I decide how much over invoice I'm willing to pay. On established models like a Forester I go +$200 if the holdback is ~ $2,000. I only want to talk to the sales Manager (can negate a sales commission). I look over the lot to see if anything is close and it usually isn't. I go with my home work in hand and offer my $200 over the invoice I have in hand. Usually I'm offered a similar equipped vehicle on the lot and it's yes or no but my total bottom dollar is pretty much fixed which means their profit will be lower. So it's is up to them to order MY car for $200 over or not. If they don't want to order for my terms I walk. I'd like to go on about what constitutes a new vehicle when the dealer tries to sell me a "new car" with 100-400 demo miles on it but, that's another issue. JMTs fast eddie

Subaru all the way. I'm not a fan of Toyota's or Escape's after having spent most all of my driving years in a Subaru and having driven the others I'm just not impressed.

yeah, but I'm not sure how you're going to reach the target price ($20k) you mentioned without some serious negotiating. You can't get there with just some paperwork. That was the point of my long-winded negotiation notes- what you want is above and beyond normalcy.

As far as some of the other discussions- "if that works for you, fine." I was positive I was wanted a Toyota Matrix until I test drove it. Once I test drove it and talked ot the salesman, I didn't want it- size and not driveability was the main factor. So I needed a hands-on salesperson to test drive multiple cars and run the calculations. If I didn't do that, I would have walked into Toyota, talked to their sales manager, and made a deal. As it was, I got a better car for me after test driving several.

Don