Japanese cars are the best

When I say reliability, I mean the listings they put up with the problem areas marked with red and black dots (red is good and black is bad). My experience has been that if a black dot showed up in a particular area on a particular car that I had, it eventually developed a problem in that area.

I didn't mean to connote that I agree with everything they say. To agree with their "driving experience" discussions, I think you have to be a middle aged housewife somewhere in New Jersey.

I think this is true, and I also think that, although I dont put a lot of credence in CR, there must be some degree of truth linked to their choices. Some of their picks are for newish cars, but I am not the kind of person who buys a new car every

3-4 years.

If you trade every 3-4-5 years, chances are you will not have too many problems.

How many American name brand American built old clunkers do you see still being driven around compared to foreign name brand vehicles regardless of where they are built.Nothing beats American Iron. cuhulin

Tell you what Boob, when you've got 20 years and 291K miles on your Honduh, let us know. Just remember, the first time you run into something at over 10mph, they'll write the damn thing off...

Strangely enough, I have a couple for 20+ year old cars that are driven daily, an '86 F150, at 291K miles, on the original engine, but the second tranny, and the wife drives an '87 Merkur XR4Ti, also on it's second tranny (C3) at 206K miles. Why buy a new car, when the old ones work just fine??

SteveL

Easy to say, but not easy to support. The Asian iron is entering the market as a prime mover...The American iron is suffering rejection right now.

This is a complicated issue...There are perceptions and misperceptions.

I dont want to say that imports have beaten the American brands. But they are winning a VERY strong market position.

American technology is no longer revered.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

What did you have for dinner tonight??

Numbnuts

SteveL

He's got a point. But the truth is, I'd rather have a 50 year old American car than a 10 year old American car.

oh wait... I really do.

nate

I bought my 1978 Dodge van second hand/used.It had over 285,000 miles on it when I bought it.Since then I have put about 78,000 miles on the van.Nowadays though,almost all of my driving is a three mile round trip to the food store and back,once each week. cuhulin

I believe it's the opinions of their members (subscribers), which is considerable different than the 'general public'.

A car or other vehicle of the same make and model or a coffee pot or vacuum cleaner,whatever.You won't hardly ever find Consumers Report agreeing on the same item twice in two consecutive months,I read that somewhere in another news group a few years ago.I never read Consumers Report anyway,mainly because I don't think they know anything (Fort Bragg is Bragging every day.I can brag too,can't I?) more than I know.If I say a certain make and model of a car,or whatever,is the best (in my opinion) there is always someone who will disagree.

By the way,my old buddy's wife bought a 1991 Chevrolet Lumina car brand new.About two years ago,she bought a brand new Chevrolet car.She let him have her (that's the way it usually goes,the wife gets the new vehicle,her hubby gets her cast off vehicle) 1991 car.(he also own a

2000 Chevrolet pickup truck that he bought a few years ago) I have asked him before when he gets ready to get rid of his 1991 Chevorlet Lumina car to let me know.The car is like new inside and out,except for some minor paint fading on the rear section of the car.I know those cars are worth about $1,600 and up.He will let me buy it from him (when he gets ready to sell it to me) for about half that price.He and I are the same age (65 years old) and we went to school together way back in the 1950's. cuhulin

Through high school and college, I worked as a radio and TV repairman. These were the dark ages of electronics, in many cases, where printed circuits were being introduced and were very troublesome, picture tubes failed after 3-5 years, etc.

Consumer Reports bragged on some of the sorriest crap to come down the pike. Maybe the styling was interesting, or the initial picture quality was okay, or some of the features were different from the rest, but the quality of some of their recommendations was purely manure.

I have had doubts about CR from that time. They didnt seem to be doing the customer a service in those days.

I hope it is better now.

Some of my opinions about cars are based on my actual experience, not CR. And they are just opinions, but to me they are facts until proven different.

I have never cared much for Fords, my classic 57 Thunderbird and my 66 Mustang being possible exceptions. I cant even rememeber, now, how the 57 rode in comparison with cars today. The 66 was good for a Ford, but I also remember that it had 'jitter' problems.

I have owned a lot of GM cars, one American Motors, a couple of Passats, one Dodge van, two Fiats, plus the early Fords.

There are good (and bad) things to be said about most of them. I have had more catastrophic failures with GM cars, and have bitched more about crappy and poorly thought out engineering on them, than any other car. I have often said that there must be a special place reserved in Hell for GM engineers.

But in defense, I have also said that I had rather push a Buick that ride in a Ford. (strictly from the standpoint of ride and driver comfort.)

To each his own. There is no easy answer.

My next will be a Toyota Avalon, and my learning curve will continue, I guess.

Boob? that isn't very nice... :~)>

I SO wish the 'write the damn thing off' statement was true. Last summer I was hit in the driver's side door by a full-size late-model dodge truck. Didn't do a thing to the truck, but I wasn't feeling so good afterwards and neither was the car!

They fixed it and I am still driving it. :~(

bob z.

Yes, but not any high-quality mass-produced products. Part of the problem is that labor is expensive in the US, which drives mass production facilities offshore. Part of the problem is that once you start losing facilities, you start losing the infrastructure base to support them. Used to be there were dozens of contract machine shops in my area that did production work for larger manufacturers, and if I needed something made I could take it to them. When the big manufacturers go offshore, the small contractors go with them, and so does the surplus equipment market as well.

Americans make a lot of high quality products that require skilled labor and are made individually. That includes things like nuclear bombs, movies and music, but surprisingly you'll find things like high-grade lenses and precision parts made in the US. The stuff isn't cheap, but for the most part American business can't compete when price is the main concern. That still leaves plenty of other places to compete, if American businessmen can get their head around where they are.

--scott

I agree. BUT, I'd much rather have a 10 year old American car than a 25 year old American car. Things are getting better, even though for a while they really hit rock bottom.

--scott (who traded the 50 year old American car in for a 25 year old German one)

My old buddy said his 1991 Chevrolet Lumina car has a V 6 engine and about 115,000 miles on the car.Do those engines have overhead cam shafts? If so,I think it most likely needs a new cam belt on it.Is it relativley easy enough to change out that belt,or difficult? I believe (or I think so anyway) I can handle that job myself.I have never owned any vehicles which had overhead camshafts before. cuhulin

I don't know, Volvo was hard on the skids with the early S-80 fire recalls and huge reliability problems. I think Volvo benefitted almost as much as Jaguar from Ford's influence. As to why Ford can turn around foreign makes but can't clean its own house... there's a question for the ages!

S-80 related chassis, Ford drivetrain and sheet metal.

Yes, Ford styling and sheet metal, Ford V6 engine or Mazda 4-cylinder, don't know about the transaxle, shared platform with the Mazda 6. The v6, at least, is a *nice* driving car.

I leave it as an excercise to the reader to determine who is the idiot here... but it aint the guy driving the American car in this case.

You bet. Appliances (eg. Kitchen-aid/Whirlpool) , HVAC equipment (York, Trane, Lennox, Carrier), electric machinery (General Electric), locomotives (General Electric, EMD), cars (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda).

Its the disposable consumer electronics that are mostly made overseas.

I wouldn't trade my Razr for a truckload of Samsungs and LG crap, but then I doubt the Razr is actually made here either.

I've read threads like this here before, and they quickly become emotional, just as this one has. I've always said that when the emotion train pulls into the station, the logic train is the first one to leave. I'm driving a 1995 Toyota T100 pickup that's currently showing 326K on the odometer. It still runs and drives very well. I also do my own maintenance. My experience with my son's 1990 Silverado and my wife's 1988 Plymouth minivan tells me that the Toyota is built better, and is waaaayy easier to work on than either one of those vehicles. Anyway, I've decided the T100 truck will be a project for me. I'm going to drive it until it literally won't go anymore just to see how long that will be. I have every confidence that i'll see a half million miles.