Japanese cars are the best

I have replaced a timing chain before on a 1971 Chevrolet van I usd to own.V8 engine.It was no biggie to me. cuhulin

Yeah, rock-bottom was about 1980, so your "25 year old" number is about right. But go back further and things were much better. I have a 14 year old American car (close enough to 10 years), a 34 year old American car, a 38 year old American car, and a 41 year old American car. Oh, and a 58 year old American car, but that's in a different class entirely.s

By far the cheapest ones to maintain are the 38 and 41 year-old cars (a '66 and '69). There's nothing WRONG with the 14 year old one ('93), but a water pump for it costs >$100, and a water pump for the '66 costs $50. Labor to install the water pump on the 93 is: drain cooling system, remove all belts, remove hood latch cross-bar, remove electric fan assembly, remove timing case cover, remove timing belt, replace water pump (and timing belt, unless you're a moron) and then reverse, including re-timing the cams. A water pump on the '66 is: remove fan belt, (leave A/C and PS belts in place). Remove fan (4 bolts) remove water pump (4 bolts), then reverse process. That's just one service example, there are DOZENS of similar ones. And on top of that, the '66 is more fun to drive.

I doubt that there are any of those left running with all the problems they had!

Not necessarily.

They had both a chain and a belt, and they -were- available in

1991.

Just worked on one (in a Loonyma) about a month ago.

They are getting scarcer tho.

Last time I looked at some of the JD Powers numbers it was pretty clear that there is essentially no difference in quality between around the top 20 vehicles. They report the numbers like this..

Camry - 15 problems per hundred vehicles for XX amount of time Dodge - 30 problems per hundred vehicles for XX amount of time

But they usually don't tell you the "units" so it just looks like

Camry - 15 pph Dodge - 30 pph

When you see those numbers you think WOW, a guy with a Dodge is got a huge number of extra problems then the guy with the Camry.

But in reality, the Camry owner of an individual car in XX time, often a year, will have 0.15 problems. Not much.

But the Dodge owner, which looked so bad at first, will have in that same year, 0.3 problems. Hmmm, doesn't look like much of a quality difference anymore does it. Very possibly neither of them will have to go in for a warranty claim for 2 or 3 years.

It's a major issue when you are footing the warranty costs for a million cars to have an extra 15 repairs for every 100 of them. But to the retail consumer it's not a realistic issue to even worry about. Yet consumers have been brainwashed by this false way of looking at reliability ratings into thinking there is some significant difference to them in Camry's versus Dodges.

My Dad bought a Pontiac Vibe. It's the identical vehicle as the Toyota matrix. So I was curious how they stacked up in CR. If you look in CR it's clear that somehow putting the Pontiac Name on it has caused the quality to drop by half a dot overall. Somehow the identical paint has lower quality when there is a Pontiac Nameplate glued to the back hatch.

I bought a few appliances based on CRs ratings and they turned out to be among the worse appliances I've ever owned.

Odd, We've driven several fords to 250K on original drivetrains. I've had several chevies that also racked up impressive mileage. Currently I've got a 94 caprice with 125K on it that's been to the dealer maybe three times for repairs other then normal wear like brake pads. Once for a speed sensor and twice for window track derailments.

My driver is a 89 S-10 with 175k on original everything but the front end. Had to replace some front end parts at 150K. And pads and rotors as normal wear items.

Reminds me there's a gal at work with a Chevy 4x4 pickup with 225K on it with original engine and tranny. They also had a Buick that racked up close to 200K on original drivetrain. Another person has a 92 Explorer with over 400K on original driveline.

Reliability and quality are perhaps related, but are two different issues in my mind. Of course, we would like both.

The reliability indices often seem to exaggerate the differences between models. I think most cars are relatively reliable when they are new. After a few years, we may see more differences...

What magazine does have credibility when it comes to new cars?

Now if only there was Dodge that was decent in other ways.

I don't think ANYBODY really does, because so many vehicles have hidden design problems that don't turn up for a couple of years.

--scott

John and Horace Dodge,the Dodge brothers.They came up with quite a few advances for their products,and other auto companies too.Including the Ford Model T cars and trucks.John and Horace Dodge pioneered the steel webbing for flexible front brake hoses/lines so that the hoses/lines wouldn't balloon when the brakes are applied.If you want to do some searches for, History of John and Horace Dodge or,History of Dodge Automobiles. cuhulin

Just rolling over 309,000 miles last night, I'd have to say some domestic cars are right up there on the list too.

: - )

harryface

05 Park Avenue 54, 060 91 Bonneville 309.004

Some people who own Toyota vehicles tote a camera along with them when their Toyota is about to roll up 100,000 miles and 200,000 miles and so on.They will stop wherever they are and grab their camera and take a picture of the speedometer/odometer (the part that shows the mileage) and a picture or two of the outside of their Toyota.I once read about an old Volkswagen beetle car which racked up at least 500,000 miles.I think it was 500,000 miles.

In my opinion,it isn't unusual at all for any American name brand/built in America vehicles (including Harley Davidson Motorcycles too) to roll up hundreds of thousands of miles if the vehicles are properly maintained and well cared for.

By the way,starting in the Fall of this year,a new Toyota factory is going to be built at the Wellspring industrial park near Tupelo,Mississippi.

There already is a Nissan factory at the I-55 Gluckstadt exit area between Jackson and Canton,Mississippi.Nissan has some sonic sound cannons at the Mississippi factory.The cannons automatically turn on to bust up hailstones so the new Nissan vehicles in the parking lot won't be damaged by hailstones. cuhulin

Depends upon the level of maintenance you are willing to perform. I have always maintained my vehicles very well. I have had some go to 200 k miles, but there are always expenses to get you there... Transmissions, water pumps, radiators, etc.

The more parts you have (electronics incorporating millions of elements sometims) the more likely that one or more will fail, sometimes leaving you stranded.

My next car will be my first Toyota. Wish me luck

HLS,I agree with you about the electronics in vehicles nowdays.The more of that stuff the manufacturers install in new vehicles,the more chance of something going wrong.It doesn't even have to be installed in vehicles by the manufacturers.I guess you heard about that guy who was driving his vehicle and useing his laptop computer at the same time and he crashed into another vehicle.One of the rules of the road is keep your eyes on the road. cuhulin