Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

I've considered a lot of hobbies to amuse myself while I ride this dirt ball around the Sun but I must admit that tire wrestling is not one of them.  But hey, if it blows your skirt up, knock yourself out.

Whatever works for you. n the past 15 years I paid to have 8 tires changed. No payback for me.

Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah, that would be mean. :)

But do you spray a little bit of flamable fluid inside the tire and stand back and throw a match at it? That is fun.

Hi Clare, I have to thank you for contributing to the tribal knowledge here, where Usenet is sort of like a Potluck Picnic, where everyone brings something of value for the others.

For me, you helped me many times when I hit stumbling blocks, e.g., when I didn't know how to get the clutch done, or when I didn't know how to replace the cooling system, and others helped, for example, on the bimmer where the CCV replacement was a bitch, etc., and for that I thank you all.

You also found GREAT information about brake pad friction material, e.g., the Michigan Police Cruiser Tests, where it's damn difficult to sort through all the marketing BS that surrounds brake pads (where almost nobody knows how to buy pads & shoes without falling prey to marketing BS, IMHO).

We've discussed polyetheramines (e.g., "techron" marketing) where I'm allergic to marketing bullshit, and where Costco gas is as good as any gas sold in terms of detergents, for example.

I'm all about facts, and then logical deductions based on those facts, where we've discussed, for example, tire warranties in the past, where you basically often don't get to use them due to the fine print.

Since I'm all about facts, and logic based on those facts, I generally disagree with people who just make shit up, like the guys who think you can get decent tire specs on the net (you just can't, where I wish you could, but you can't "compare" tires by the real spec even if you got the $100,000 specs, simply because you'd need those $100,000 specs on all the tires you're considering, which just isn't gonna happen realistically). So all you have is what is molded onto the tire to go by (since tires are one of the most bullshit marketing commodities on this planet, IMHO).

Lots & lots of people fall for marketing bullshit; but I try not to.

With respect to the math on you getting "free" mounting and balancing, it depends, on course, on how much that "free" cost you, in that generally costs are bundled when they're said to be "free", where I generally add up the total cost, and not just the individual cost of cherry-picked items.

For example, I'd compare the total costs of a "free" mounting and balancing by comparing the total cost at the shop, versus the total cost from buying from SimpleTire and then having Costco mount and balance them (although Costco charges $5 for balancing each time if you bring in your own tires).

We have a Wheelworks locally which conveniently does free repairs too, but I prefer to do my own patchplug repairs at home simply for the satisfying convenience of not having to bring the car or tire to them.

Plus, as you're aware, lots of people plug tires from the outside at home, where, at home, I _still_ use the patchplug method, but it leaves the option of a quick outside patch which is even more convenient than an inside repair is (not that an inside repair is difficult since it's about as easy as it gets).

You have a point that a LOT of people don't like to get their hands dirty doing repairs, and tires are one of those things most people make excuses for not doing, but the real reason they don't do it is the same reason they don't clean toilet bowls.

If I made a living cleaning bathrooms, for example, (which, let's assume for the example that I don't like doing that), then the last thing I'd want to do when I get home, would likely be cleaning bathrooms.

But, personally, I like pouring hydrochloric acid in my toilet bowl to clean the crud. It just feels good to watch the acid dissolve the calcium deposits, so what we enjoy is up to us.

The only problem I have with most people's logic on why they don't do their own tire mounting & balancing is that they really are just making excuses for why they don't do something they just don't like doing.

At least you're honest that you just don't like doing it. o Most people make up bullshit excuses for why they "can't" do it (IMHO).

I'm allergic to bullshit. o It's fine if people _hate_ doing it (just like they hate doing homework) o But most of the excuses they make for not doing it don't hold water

You should hear the bullshit excuses I hear from the grandkids, for example, on why they can't do their homework.

The simple answer whenever someone says they can't mount and balance their own tires/wheels is that they just don't like doing it. And that's ok.

What's not ok are the bullshit excuses the try to foist on us.

Hi Clare, I fully agree with you that the equipment from HF is shitty. o The tools work - but they're shitty.

I don't disagree with you on facts o Adults almost never have problems agreeing on facts

In fact, there are plenty of articles on the net for how people tried to MODIFY the shitty HF equipment to work better. These people use lathes, grinders, welders, taps, etc., so they _know_ what they're doing, and the fact is that they _still_ use the HF tools as the starting point.

For example, this guy highly modified the bead breaker: o

The best part of the bead breaker, though, is that curved part, which is fantastic; but the rest of the bead breaker sucks (but it works).

While he bolted down the bead breaker, I find that stepping on a piece of foot-wide board parallel to the base works fine. This guy was more redneck about fixing the flaws in the bead breaker, where the fact that people who can weld and craft steel _still_ use the bead breaker is a testament to the value of the curved part of the bead breaker tool from HF.

The tire changing tool, by way of contrast, is pretty good, except that the bead breaker attachment to that tire changing tool is nearly worthless on larger SUV tires (it works fine only on small economy car tires).

It's so easy to change tire with that tool that this guy does it in pajamas and slippers, where I admit, I've done it barefoot a few times myself. :)

This guy did modifications of the HF tire changing tool using a lathe and grinder and welding and tapping equipment, where you must clearly note that EVERYONE is SUCCESSFUL with the stock HF tools, but everyone notes that they are a bit flimsy with obvious design flaws.

Hi Clare,

Most people simply assume every tire _needs_ to be dynamically balanced, IMHO, where I've found that a static balance seems to work just fine.

We've discussed dynamic balancing before, where I showed the team the clever marketing pages in the past which show that there's a lot of bullshit around dynamic balancing, along with a lot of good science.

When you need it you need it, and when you don't, you don't o It's like penicillin

You either need penicillin, or you don't need penicillin. o Taking penicillin when you don't need it, doesn't help anything

If your tires are balanced well enough to not vibrate, then balancing them again isn't going to change antyhing just like taking penicillin for when you're not sick isn't going to change anything about your health.

I don't even know of a shop that won't dynamically balance, where they have to blance anyway, so they may as well dynamically blance (which will reduce return visits, which are what cost them the most, I'm sure).

In summary, these are what I've learned, from doing 30 tires: o It's easy to mount and static balance at home o Anyone who says otherwise, likely has never done it (MHO) o Almost everyone who says they can't do it, for exmaple, never did it

IMHO, most people are making lame excuses when they claim "why" they can't do it, since it's easy to do at home.

The real reson most people don't do it is simply they don't like doing it. o And that's OK.

At least you're honest in why you don't do it. o I appreciate your honesty because I'm allergic to bullshit from others who can't admit they don't like getting their hands dirty so they make up all sorts of lame excuses why they can't do their homework.

I _like_ being self suffiient where I don't mind my hands being dirty o They prefer having other people get their hands dirty

That's fine, as long as they're honest to themselves about it.

Oooops. The math may be off a bit as it was off the cuff above, but the math isnt' the main reason you get satisfaction out of being self sufficient, just as the math in the enjoyment of composting isn't in the saving you might get from having a smaller garbage pail.

IMHO, if we want to talk savings, I suspect the real savings are that you can choose any tire you like when you buy the lowest priced best-quality tires at a reputable outlet such as "SimpleTire", which, alone, saves you a ton of money where they don't charge sales tax or shipping most of the time in addition to having great prices, and _then_ you can mount them yourself, or, you can have Costco mount & balance them for $15, or, you can have Costco just balance them for $5.

The point is that most people make excuses when the reality always seems to be that they just don't like getting their hands dirty on this job, where the main reason for doing a home repair like this is, IMHO, the satisfaction of being self sufficient and in doing the job right (e.g., metal valves, heavy spot properly placed, fewest wheel weights, etc.).

There are other ancillary advantages, e.g., you can fix things when stores are closed, you can do them in your pajamas without having to wait in lines at the shop, you can fix things that they might not touch, e.g., nearer to the shoulder than they might fix or more worn than they might touch, etc., all of which are adult decisions YOU can make, and not them (as long as you're aware of the RMA guidlines which we all presumably are well aware of).

You can even patch a leak from the outside, if you do it at home, where nobody here is likely to be insisting they never did that in their life! :)

In short, most of what I hear from people as to why they don't like doing their homework is from people who have _never_ done it.

The ones who have never done it always seem to have the mnost excuses. o When the fact is that it's trivially easy to mount/balance at home.

As far as I know, only Clare has done it, and he is clear that he doesn't like doing it, particulrly with shitty equipment, where I don't disagree and where I applaud his honesty.

Old School Vulcanizing Tire Patch Youtube ...Those were the good old days.

Hi Sanity Claus,

I appreciate those comments, where, if you have a cite that backs up your belief system, I think it would be useful to all, as Usenet is designed to be a potluck picnic where each person adds value where they can.

Without further cites, I'd just note offhand that we have a looooooooong thread on a.h.r, as I recall, on this topic of exactly what the red and yellow spots mean, which can be _different_ for each manufacturer (and which aren't always there).

For example, we've covered that the marks are generally most useful for brand-new wheels (where the original match mounting marks are still visible), and we've covered why the light spot is still generally the valve area (all else being equal, of course), even though there's an "additional" valve there, simply because the plug of missing steel is generally heavier than the rubber & brass valve despite the very many old intuitive wives tales to the contrary.

I'm all about facts, where we've looked at the cites in the past to conclude that, in the absence of match-mounting marks on the wheel, the best course for a starting point mount at home is the red spot goes next to the valve if you have a red spot, and if you have only a yellow spot, as I recall, it goes opposite the valve (but I'd have to dig up the cites to doublecheck on that as most tires I've mounted have both the red and yellow so I only use the red mark as my starting point).

In summary, if you can back up your belief system with a cite, I'll read it, and if you want, I can dig up cites that back up my belief system since my belief system is never imaginary - my belief system is _always_ based on actual facts.

If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it. o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve (for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

If you have facts that show otherwise, please cite them so we all benefit from every post.

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.

Since I'm allergic to the intuition of old wives tales, but also since my memory is not even close to perfect, I looked up the cites again, even though I haven't read them in years, where it must be noted that the only perfect cite will be one from Hancook, which I didn't find, so we have to go on what we can find.

This is what Yokohama says about tire match mounting & balancing

Uniformity (red mark) "If the point of minimum radial run-out is not indicated on a wheel assembly, the weight method of match-mounting should be used."

Weight (yellow mark) "When performing weight match-mounting, the yellow mark on the tire, indicating the point of lightest weight, should be aligned with the valve stem on the wheel assembly, which represents the heaviest weight point of the wheel assembly. "

This is exactly what you said, and the exact opposite of what I had said, so I appreciate that you bring up that my memory was faulty.

Moving on for confirmation... I'll tackle a couple more hits & respond, but I wanted to THANK YOU for bringing up the point that my memory was faulty, which I APPRECIATE greatly!

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.

"Themselves". Does that mean only those who've done it in their driveway at home, or does it also include the shop I've worked at for the last 12 years?

Either way, we normally use the yellow dot, not just because it's "correct" in our little version of reality, but because everyone expects it. Even if we miss by an inch or two, or the dot has worn off over time (used tire), or if we get a tire brand that doesn't even use dots, the balancer makes it all happy again. It's really not that critical.

Hi Sanity Clause, It means different things depending on the question that the person is answering.

If the question is a technical question about the proper final result in mounting tires, such as where the colored dots go with respect to the valve stem (or match mounting marks, which are generally obliterated in older wheels), then it's a question that the pros can answer.

But if it's a question about using a Harbor Freight shitty tool, it's likely NOT a question anyone can answer who hasn't used the Harbor Freight shitty tools.

I, for one, have used the Harbor Freight shitty tools, but most people who are making up excuses for NOT doing tires at home, have NEVER done tires anywhere, but even if they have, they've never done tires at home using the HF shitty tools.

Having a pro try to answer those types of questions is sort of like having a farmer in California try to answer why they urinate on their crops in India.

Two different use models, where the farmer in California has all the latest mechanization and irrigation and tractor-fed fertilization, while the farmer in India pisses and poops on his crops to get them to grow.

Worse, most of the people responding, except maybe you, me, and Clare, have _never_ in their entire lives mounted a tire at home using the shitty equipment that we're discussing here - where maybe even you and Clare have never done that.

Remembering that I'm allergic to bullshit, all those people making up those outlandish excuses for why they can't do it are just like my grandkids making up outlandish excuses for why they didn't do their homework.

The honest answer is that they don't like changing tires at home. o All the rest is pure bullshit, IMHO, if they've never done it.

I thank you for bringing up the fact that the yellow dot "can" be used, where _most_ of the references Clare and I have been discussing say to use it only if the red dot doesn't exist.

Sometimes facts are conflicting, where they seem to be conflicting here, which is ok, as long as we're all aware that they conflict.

The facts come first, and then we deduce rational logic from those facts: o Red is almost always the uniformity indicator o Yellow is almost always the weight indicator o Most cites (but not all say the red dot takes precedence over yellow o Most cites (but not all) say to mount the valve stem to the dots in the absence of match-mounting marks (which is almost always on older rims).

There's a confusing issue of weight of steel versus alloy, where it seems that the presumed heavy spot moves 180 degrees between steel and alloy because of the weight difference between the hole drilled for the valve, and the valve itself.

It's not _that_ simple, but it's close to that simple. o The whole point is to minimize added weight by good initial placement

In summary, I do appreciate that you have experience, because other than Clare, the posters who made up excuses have never changed a tire at home, so their excuses were based on nothing material.

I've changed 30 tires at home, where I can say a few things:

1. I mount the red dot to the valve stem on both steel & alloy (but maybe I should re-think that based on what you & Clare say).
2. I have never failed to mount a tire, from puny 15 inch tires to larger

1. I static balance, which I admit is basic, but which seems to work in that I don't get perceptible vibration, but I like Trader's information that Costco now dynamically balances tires for only five bucks, which is a great deal.

So, moving forward, my plan is: A. Buy tires at great prices online & have them shipped for free, to me. B. Mount/Balance/Rotate/Repair them at home using HF shitty equipment. C. If I feel vibration, then pay Costco $5 per tire to dynamically balance.

One question I'd like to ask you is whether you feel that an _imperceptible_ vibration can cause damage?

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

No BS from me. I think for most people it is silly to DIY when the payback is measured in decades. I have no interest in doing it.

I'm not sure if you have an air of superiority or are just arrogant. Its the way you come across though.

Home made tire changer machines Youtube ...If people didn't do things themselves, things would never get done.

That’s overstate, its better than nothing.

Hi Ed Pawlowski,

I'm allergic to bullshit. o Particularly from people who are afraid of doing the job themselves.

Hence, they have absolutely zero idea of what they're talking about. o IMHO, they're all just like grade schoolers discussing Santa Claus, Ed.

Do you remember when Normal Schwarzkopf responded to a news reporter: "Have you ever _been_ in a minefield?" REFERENCE:

Some things, like changing tires at home, people are either afraid, or ill informed, or they don't have the money for tools, or for storage, or they don't want to get their hands dirty, or whatever, so they make up all sorts of lame idiotic excuses for why they can't do something as trivial as replace a tire at home.

The real answer is that everything they say is just pure bullshit o Because they've never even once done it in their entire lives.

They're just spouting bullshit ... like that idiotic reporter was. o I apologize if I'm too blunt and factual and honest for you.