Suuggestion For Passenger & LT Tire Makers....

Leave the "Max. Cold Pressure" figure OFF the tire sidewalls period, since more than half of
drivers, vehicle owners, and even supposedly "ASE Certified" mechanics first look there for
what to adjust tire pressures to. Not kidding, leave it off!
Instead, next to the maximum load weight in pounds & kg, inscribe: 'REFER TO VEHICLE
MANUFACTURER TIRE PLACARD OR LITERATURE FOR APPROPRIATE COLD TIRE
PRESSURES' on the tire sidewall, so as to remove any doubt.
The bursting inflation on tires made since the '90s is probably 50-100psi above any pressure
the car makers are likely to specify anyway, so why list a Max. Cold number, since it's not
near the bursting pressure anyway.
Reply to
thekmanrocks
:
On the topic of where to put the maximum cold pressure...
When I fill a tire on a passenger vehicle, I read the placard on the door jamb, and then I usually pick a number I want, where I don't necessarily follow the placard if it's not "high enough" for me.
What I mean by that is I use my own judgement based on the _range_ in the placard, which I never take as gospel.
As an example, on a bimmer, they specify different values (by only a few psi usually) for front versus rear (just as they specify minus 2 degrees camber for the rear). To hell with that. I use the same value, usually in the high end of the range, and I lessen the camber to as neutral as it will go in the rear (for tire wear considerations). I don't race so I don't need the cornering traction they're seeking.
On a SUV or van, I still use the higher range, e.g., if they specify 36PSI, I'll use 39PSI to 42PSI, where I don't worry about a few pounds (the gauges don't even read within a psi anyway and there's the accuracy & repeatability issue to contend with on any "typical" $5 tire gauge).
If it's visible, I "might" look at the tire sidewall, but there's almost no chance that the tire sidewall max pressure is even going to be attained, but it _still_ needs to be on the tire, IMHO, just like the maximum weight a bridge can handle should be posted at each end of the bridge.
Reply to
Arlen Holder
:
_________ Why wouldn't you want to follow the recommendations set up by BMW themselves, tire pressure offset & their alignment?
After all, they did pay engineers to do the work that went into deriving those pressures and alignment angles on that vehicle? Not to mention test drives by both professional drivers and presumably members of the buying public, before finalizing those specs.
See, that's the 'MIBy'ism(More-Is-Better) that I have long since rejected. I'll admit, I'm a relative newcomer to the stickers adhered to the door posts of motor vehicles.From 1987 to around 2000, I inflated my tires to the Max Cold Pressure on them, PLUS A LITTLE! Yeah, young n dumb you could say, lol!
But once I discovered what was really on those mysterious placard stickers, it was an epiphany! Suddenly, my cars felt like cars again, and I was able to really enjoy driving, not just bouncing down the road, hearing the squeaks and groans of my car's body and frame, and rattling of the suspension from waaaaaay too much air in tires.
Do I believe in going just a *little* the pressures on the door placard? Maybe 1-2psi or so, and mainly in winter. For me, any more than that, and the ride harshens, and the steering becomes too darty for me(I prefer some heft when turning the wheel off center).
>If it's visible, I "might" look at the tire sidewall, but there's almost no >chance that the tire sidewall max pressure is even going to be attained, >but it _still_ needs to be on the tire, IMHO, just like the maximum weight >a bridge can handle should be posted at each end of the bridge.
Reply to
thekmanrocks
:
You might not like my answer. HINT: The engineers at BMW don't care one bit about "my" tire wear.
And, as Xeno is well known to quite accurately state... o The engineers provide a _range_ where there's a _reason_ it's a range.
If you corner like a banshee, then minus two degrees rear camber is great. o But if you care more about tire wear, then 0 degrees camber is just fine.
As for tire pressure, as they say in the Pirates of the Caribbean... o They're just "guidelines"...
In almost all passenger vehicles, I like my pressure higher than nominal... o For reasons Xeno is well aware of (extreme tight slow speed cornering).
And, I like my camber closer to neutral (caster also lower than nominal). o The _range_ is what matters (and the maximum & minimum, of course).
As long as you don't get close to the maximum & minimum in the range... o You make your own decisions where you like things within the range.
Always keeping in mind no subsystem stands alone and unaffected.
I'm not sure why you claim that since it's obvious they "pay engineers". o Those engineers specified a _range_ for a reason.
As long as you don't exceed the max and min, you're within the range. o I'm not sure what your argument is...
Are you claiming they don't specificy a range? o I don't understand your dislike of the range they specified?
It's _never_ a single number & certainly never without measurement error.
Please don't put words in my mouth that I didn't claim. o I didn't hint at that. I didn't say that. I didn't think that.
It's a strawman we'll spend the rest of our lives debunking. o Do not ever claim that I claimed that "more is better"
Just because I may choose the high end of a range for a given spec. o Just stop that silliness.
Please.
Tires have evolved since we first started driving in the late fifties and early sixties, where bias ply tires are completely different from radials.
For _today's_ passenger tires, IMHO, under "normal" conditions, I keep the inflation and alignment aimed mostly at tire wear considerations over "comfort" considerations, and certainly over "cornering like a banshee" considerations.
Hence my specs are set to the "I drive like a little old lady" range.
However, if you wish to set your specs to "I corner like a banshee" range, I'm not going to argue against that, as long as you corner like a banshee.
Likewise, if your inflation is set to "I haul lumber every day" range, then, again, I'm not gonna argue with your inflation set to a hauling lumber range.
Hhhhmmmmmmm... they're not "mysterious" to me, but to each his own. :)
To me, I mostly care about the torque of the lug nuts (bolts on the bimmer), more so than the pressure in the tires.
Given air pressure never leaks in, and given I don't bother to check for months, and given the aforementioned "I drive like a little old lady" style, and given I care more about tire wear, I put the pressure on all my sedans at around 30 to 45 psi, give or take a few, depending on my mood.
If I'm going on a long fast trip, I may inflate them higher and if I get lazy over time, I might let them drop down to around 30 psi, even as BMW specifies, as I recall offhand, something like 29 psi on the fronts (I'm not gonna go outside to look).
Basically, 30 to 45 is what I use, depending on how I feel at that moment.
Bear in mind, I mount, repair, and balance my own tires, so when I'm actually setting the bead, I go way above that pressure, temporarily. o Questions about mounting & balancing new LT tires on new steel rims at home (match mounting marks, red dots, yellow dots, & spacers)
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!topic/rec.autos.tech/J5-7TxdDpBw> I strongly suggest you skim that thread, and look at the pictures, for example, which show that we inflate & balance tires within a "range".
Wow. I don't generally believe in "miracles in a can", nor in a tire: o Motor is wheezing, as if it's breathing - why?
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There are no "panacea" solutions, where "air pressure" isn't gonna solve a whole lotta problems with cars "bouncing down the road", or "squeaks and groans", or "rattling of the suspension", in my humblest of opinions.
As long as you don't underexceed or overexceed the range for the tire, you can do whatever you want to do. Nobody here is gonna stop you.
But if you think any one number is a panacea, I'll just state that it's not.
You can't even measure to a psi accurately, I don't think (dunno, I have to check too much to ascertain that so I simply assume that for now).
Plus, air never leaks in, so, it's always _less_ than what you put in it, and, even then, air leaks out differentially so it's not even nor could you repeatedly measure it enough to ensure it's even (within a few points anyway).
If you like what's on the placard, then all the power to you though. o But don't chastise me for using 30psi to 45psi if I wish to. :)
OK. I hear you.
As I said, about the only time I "read" a tire is when I'm replacing it. o Otherwise, it's about 30psi to 45psi for a passenger car tire for me.
I assume you realize that I can "read" the specifications on a car tire. o And, certainly, I'm well aware of how passenger tires are manufactured...
o How Tires are made
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!topic/rec.autos.tech/8lTwO77HwQ4> For me, I inflate them to 30psi to 45psi depending on the vehicle, the presumed loading, the presumed driving, the temperature, etc.
It's not gospel; it's simply an understanding of the tradeoffs.
I understand you have an issue with what they put on tire sidewalls.
Personally, I prefer _more_ information, not less.
For example, how do you mount your tires with respect to the red & yellow dots that are printed on the sidewall of almost all new tires?
Reply to
Arlen Holder
:
I should be more clear that when I'm setting a bead, the pressure isn't my main consideration, so sometimes I go above and have to let out air, but just as often I'm below, and have to add even more air.
It all depends on how hard it is to set that bead, where every make and model of tire seems to be a bit different in my humble experiences.
Overall, SUV and LT tires are generally harder though, than smaller sedan tires, in my experience, where I use as much or little air pressure as needed to set the bead. (I still need to invest in the blast bazooka.)
Reply to
Arlen Holder
_____________ Agreed, about the range in alignment specs.
For me, I prefer to keep what adjustables there are on my car as close to the middle of that range as possible. And I NEVER aim for "zero" on any alignment angle - unless zero degrees happens to be right in that middle of range of a given angle. If the toe for each rear wheel on vehicle XYZ is specified as
0 to +0.5deg(in), then I'll aim for +0.2-0.3deg - NOT zero.
If Camber(front or rear) is adjustable and is specified as +0.5 to -1.0 deg, I'll aim for -0.25deg - the MIDDLE of that range. Most modern aligner software is set up to guide that tech in that fashion anyway.
The only area I might go aggressive on is Caster angle: as close to the maximum positive attainable - I want that bastard to track as straight as possible and resist my steering effort.
_____________
But that IS "More-is-Betterism", even if you don't inflate your tires to their max cold pressure.
Most folks you ask like their TV pictures brighter than recommended, or calibrated(think: wheel alignment for your TV - a service I provide at $50/per set)
It's America Arlen: Bigger, Bolder, Brighter, Louder, More More More! More air in the tires, Faster! So don't take it personally when I rant on that point.
Like I said, using my early ignorance of the vehicle sticker, and keeping my tires filled to max plus 5psi,I was a MIBy Extraodinaire, once. I've matures since those days.
Welcome to 2020, Arlen: Tire gauges are available, for $50 and under, that are certified accurate to 0.5% of maximum reading. So on a 0-100psi gauge, the error is only 0.25psi with a reading of 50psi from a given tire. Half a psi if measuring 100psi, though the gauge maker themselves will probably recommend a higher-range gauge if you do that often.
Using 30psi, if the placard recommends 32? Or 33psi? that's considered within reason. But some folks out there, even with OEM size replacement tires, stick 40psi cold in them, for God knows what purpose.
_______________ Depends on what that information is. Like I said, Give a pump and a gauge to any average Joe or Jane, tell them to air up the underinflated car outside:
I'd bet the farm you check their work afterwards, and you'll find those tires inflated at or close to what's stamped on THEM as opposed to what's readily available information if they would just OPEN A DAMNED CAR DOOR and LOOK ON THE B-PILLAR, or gas lid, or owners manual.
It's just human laziness Ar, a desire to just get something done as quick as possible, with little or no thought. That's what gets churned out of schools these days, at secondary and collegiate levels sadly.
So again, on the soccer-mobile, the car-pool Odyssey, and even the weekend Corvette, remove the max-cold pressure, so idiots stop using that number to set their tires! Instead, in just a few more words, instruct these bozos - some with ASE sewn to their shirt - WHERE TO LOOK to find proper inflation information.
If I were a garage, mounting new tires on a vehicle, I'd overinflate by 2-3 psi because #1, it's probably middle of the day when I'm servicing the car, and #2, that car didn't fly here - it was driven - so pressures will be a little on the high side from that. By tomorrow morning, for the customer's drive to work, the pressures should be at approximately what's listed on the door placard. But I'd never inflate a customer's car to anywhere NEAR the pressure listed on the tire!
________________ Just researched it: Mount rubber to rim so the yellow spot is aligned with where the valve stem goes. Common sense! Yellow spot is the lightest part of the tire, and red, the heaviest - or high point, even thought they might not be located 180deg from each other on given tire.
Learn something new every day, thanks Arlen! After posting this, I might just go out and see where my P7s sit. LOL!
Damn skippy! ;)
Reply to
thekmanrocks
_________________
Yes, close to max inflation pressure on tire is typically needed to seat most tires to their rims or wheels. Understood.
**FOLLOW-UP TO 'RED AND YELLOW' MARKS:
On my P7s, now on my car for three months, I can still see faint half- to one-inch yellow dashes on all four, all within one inch of the inflator/TPMS position on the wheels. There is a blue dash elsewhere on each tire - I assume those are the heavy/hi-points. Some mfgs use different colors for that indication I guess.
Reply to
thekmanrocks
:
Hi Xeno,
Thanks for your input, as I hadn't really thought about it all that much.
Thinking about it further, I'm gonna agree with you even though I intimated otherwise prior.
When I set a bead, I lubricate with dish detergent, and then remove the valve core, and then I screw on a modified airgun so that I can press the trigger to get air in but I don't have to hold it as it screws perfectly onto the Schrader valve.
When the bead pops for the second or third time, and I check that it's even, I stop pressing the trigger.
Then I pop the air hose off the modified airgun, and then I quickly twist the modified airgun off the Schrader valve and in that process, the air starts shooting out of the now wide-open valve stem (because there is no core inside).
I quickly grab the bare core of the Schrader valve and screw it in, using two hands, one holding the valve core (so it doesn't fly away) and the other hand twisting the special core driver tool until the air flow stops and the valve core is seated lightly.
After that point is the first time I actually _check_ the air pressure, where, almost always, I have to put a bit of air _in_ to get it to the desired 30 to 45 psi.
Given that's the process, I actually have no real idea _what_ the pressure was at the moment the bead seated itself. :)
It could be 40 psi; it could be more, it could be less. o It never really mattered to me before, so I didn't even think about it.
I'm aware that tire burst pressures are likely far higher than my 220VAC 20-gallon Sears Craftsman compressor can go to, so I'm not worried all that much about the tire exploding in this process of just seating the bead.
Reply to
Arlen Holder
: >
I would avoid dish detergent if I were you. It generally has a pH that is on the acidic side and you don't want that lingering on your steel rims. I used to use Ph balanced pure soaps that have a pH around the 7 mark. You allow one bar to soak in some water until it turns into a gel, then apply it to the bead area.
FWIW, I don't use dish detergent to wash my car either, preferring to use car specific wash products that are neutral pH - definitely not caustic.
It is roughly what I used to do.
In most cases, I found it to be less than 50psi
About 125psi is the limit of most portable compressors. Some shop compressors can go a bit higher but neither will achieve the burst pressure of a tyre.
Reply to
Xeno
Arlen, Xeno:
Just to be clear: My concern about "maximum pressure" in a tire has nothing to with mounting/seating pressure. But everything to do with which source people(like my younger self!) went by, and continue to go by, when adjusting the tire pressures on their daily drives(to work, school, church, vacation, the store, etc.).
And has been suggested here, if not implicitly, that the actual bursting pressure of a tire is, depending on its size, and probably rate of inflation(how quickly air is put in it) is at least 50psi HIGHER than the 'Max cold pressure' stamped on the tire. If not even 100psi higher than that marking.
There is a huge public misperception that if you inflate to even 1psi(6-ought kPa) beyond that Max Cold designation, you're inviting an explosion - either while filling the tire, or back out on the road - of that tire. And that has been proven, in many ridiculous YouTube videos, not to be the case.
So for just those two reasons: Driver/consumer/mechanic ignorance(some mechs), and the actual astronomically high burst pressure, I see NO REASON to list a "Max Cold Pressure" on tires designated for non-commercial private passenger(and *some* cargo) use. There is a gray line there, because some official agencies (police, medical) and commercial entities(liveries, cab cos.) do employ many of the same vehicles, or variants of, as do the public.
Victoria and Taurus Intercepts, for example. Customized versions of the same workaday large vans we see driven around by self-employed plumbers and other contractors. How do we ensure those operators aren't over- or underinflating their tires?
Now I'm in the States, where knowledge is, at least over the last four years, NOT cool, and ignorance reigns supreme, sadly. So I don't know if this whole 'door sticker vs tire' pressure is an issue just here, or if such debate rages on as much in other countries.
Reply to
thekmanrocks
________ Funny you should mention that!
When I picked up my 2010 Accord three months ago, well detailed inside and out, clay-buffed exterior polishing, etc., I noticed something odd about the exterior glass:
When I squeegeed the morning dew off the windows, I noticed something: It was as if my squeegee(and I have more than one) was riding a thin layer of *something* over the glass! After a pass of the squeegee, the glass was dry, but there were almost oily remanants and the outlines of thousands of droplets of water still on the glass.
Now, in May, most of that has worn off, especially in the obvious location where the wipers take care of the windshield. But what WAS THAT all about? I never got a car back, in my lifetime, from a washing/detailing where the outlines of water droplets remained on the glass, even after using NAPA pro auto glass cleaner over it.
Did the carwash that my dealer has a relationship with have an issue with the balance/quality of the water at their location? High metal content? PH too high or too low?
That was not the issue with the paint though. Aside from the usual minor scratches and dings expected on a ten year old car, the water three months later still beads and rolls right off, just by moving the car. But that glass??
What the?...
Reply to
thekmanrocks
:
Hi Xeno,
Thank you for your kind and informative reply, where I defer to your knowledge on tire mounting (since I have had no formal auto mechanics training after high school in the early sixties) and since I love learning more (there is _always_ far more to learn!).
I do have quite a lot of formal training in college-level chemistry, where I'd be shocked if typical dish detergent is acidic (almost all saponifiers are basic).
However, your point is still that it's _not_ neutral in the least. o This article, for example, claims they're generally a pH of 8 to 11.
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I agree with you that we probably want a pH around 7 (e.g., water) if we don't want the inside metal to be affected by what remains inside.
Looking up how to make tire bead lubricant at home, I find: o How to Make Tire Lube
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Where they suggest "body wash" with "mineral oil" or "vegetable oil" (but not petroleum-based oils).
Second hit (same site apparently) o How to Make Your Own Tire Changing Bead Lube
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They use dishwashing liquid.
Third hit, a forum general discussion apparently: o What do you use for bead lube when mounting tires
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The answers came back 'soapy water' mostly but one suggested "Ruglyde - Napa #765-1338 about $12.00 a gallon" and another suggested "Murphy's Oil Soap".
Fourth hit, another forum: o Mechanical/Maintenance Forum > Tire bead lubricants
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Again, soap is often suggested, but someone did mention "soap will corrode wheels", where the Ruglyde and other commercial solutions were noted, and one person suggested "margarine".
Amazon first hit: o Purple Power (3920P) Tire and Rubber Lubricant
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Reply to
Arlen Holder
:
Intuition...
I understand that you feel they shouldn't even put the maximum cold inflation pressure on the sidewall of a tire...
I think perhaps maybe there are different kinds of people... a. Those who make decisions strongly based on facts b. Those who make decisions strongly based on intuition
While almost every decision is a _mix_ of intuition and fact, what I'm ascribing to your issue with the max pressures is a combination of the two, where some people defer more to one than to the other.
As an example, I'm extremely well educated, so I'm rather well aware that even brilliantly smart people (e.g., Einstein) were proven wrong when they used only their intuition (he was right in a lot of stuff using only his intuition but he was wrong about half the time also).
None of us are smarter than Einstein, and yet, he was dead wrong about half the time, where he, himself, said his "greatest blunder" was what we now call the "Hubble constant", which, interestingly, he _predicted_ in a sense, intuitively, and yet, his intuition got the better of him in the end.
My point is that intuitive people are wrong about half the time, and yet, they're right about half the time - which is what I think plays a key role in why you're kind of upset about these maximum tire pressures.
It seems throughout your life, maybe, apparently, perhaps, people have intuited more into that number than you found to actually be the case.
I don't know your background, but perhaps a salesman intuited one thing, and perhaps a mechanic intuited another, and perhaps a neighbor intuited one of those, and perhaps you, yourself, intuited something else, etc.
My position is that half of you intuited wrongly, on average.
My position is that the people you should trust are, in my most humble of opinions, the _least_ intuitive people you can find. I'm one of them, by the way, in that I don't trust my own intuition one stinking little bit.
I can't tell you how many times, for example, I intuited the ice would hold when I was a kid crossing a frozen pond, and I was wrong. Or how many times I intuited the hurricane wouldn't hit my campsite, where I never did find half my equipment thereafter, or when I intuited that the tree branch I was grasping on a cliff would hold my weight, which landed me in the hospital, etc.
The people you want to trust are those who don't trust their own intuition.
On Usenet, unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of people are those who trust their own intuition more than they trust facts to the contrary.
However, even those who trust facts can be burned.
For example, the home-repair group knows I carbonate my own well water, where the burst strength of a typical 1 liter cola bottle is around 190 psi (I called the company who makes them) so I set the gauge at 40 psi (you only need about 25 psi to carbonate water but I wanted it a bit faster).
Unfortunately for me, I accidentally somehow had a runaway gauge (I still don't know exactly what happened), where, at the very moment I realized that the bottle was too taught, it exploded and slashed my wrist (luckily it was a clean slice, as if with a razor, according to the nurse who sewed it up).
The point is that I should have checked my facts, where, in this case, the setting of 40psi was wrong in some way, shape, or form.
Yet, I don't blame the bottler, since I've bottled hundreds of bottles, and that was my one and only accident with the burst pressure, but rest assured, they will burst, just as tires will burst, if you get that pressure high enough.
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder:
Excellent introspective on 'intuition', and, sorry to hear about your bottling incident, and having to learn about over-pressurizing the hard way...!
That said, I'm not sure what of which side of 'intuition' you find my concern regarding the 'max. cold pressure' on consumer tires.
While I recognize the reason why it's there, and have driven vehicles in the past with tires at max cold pressure or higher, my more recent driving experiences(since 2000) have been far more pleasurable, comfortable, and predictable, with pressures closer to, or at, the vehicle placard end of that range of possible inflation pressures. And my goal in suggesting removing the max inflation number is to help steer drivers, and some techs, toward the correct inflation reference point: somewhere in or on the specific vehicle itself.
So where does this "intuition" fit in with regards to my idea?
Reply to
thekmanrocks
:
I think maybe perhaps possibly you intuit that the max cold pressure has more meaning than it actually does.
By way of contrast, I'm not even going to _intuit_ what "I" think it means since I don't even trust my own intuition.
Worse, I don't think I've ever _cared_ about that number; so, as you saw with my setting the bead, it never even occurred to me to worry about it.
Nonetheless, I don't like being clueless about a number printed on the sidewall of a tire, so, allow me to look up facts about that number. OK?
OK. Here's the first hit... o TIRE SPECS EXPLAINED: MAXIMUM INFLATION PRESSURE
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"A tire's maximum inflation pressure is the highest "cold" inflation pressure that the tire is designed to contain. However the tire's maximum inflation pressure should only be used when called for on the vehicle's tire placard or in the vehicle's owners manual."
"A tire's "maximum inflation pressure" may be different than the assigned tire pressure used to rate the tire's "maximum load."... These unique tire pressures will be identified on the vehicle placard or the vehicle's owner's manual."
Second hit, where it's instructive to note it's last on the list: o UNDERSTANDING THE NUMBERS ON YOUR TIRES
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"maximum cold inflation pressure... might be different from the inflation pressure recommended for your vehicle by its manufacturer. That's because the maximum cold tire inflation pressure stated on the sidewall only indicates the greatest pressure permitted for that tire. It doesn't state the optimal pressure for a tire mounted on a particular vehicle - that is found on a placard mounted on the vehicle or in its owner's manual."
Third hit is a NHTSA brochure on tire safety: o NHTSA Tire Safety
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page 12: "Max. Load Single kg (lbs) at kPa (psi) Cold This information indicates the maximum load and tire pressure when the tire is used as a single."
page 12: "Max. Load Dual kg (lbs) at kPa (psi) Cold This information indicates the maximum load and tire pressure when the tire is used as a dual, that is, when four tires are put on each rear axle (a total of six or more tires on the vehicle)."
page 3: "it is difficult to obtain the recommended tire pressure if your tires are not cold.)" page 4: "The recommended tire inflation pressure that vehicle manufacturers provide reflects the proper psi when a tire is cold." Fourth hit doesn't cover the "maximum"; only the "recommended"... o Cold inflation pressure
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"Recommended cold inflation pressure is displayed on the owner's manual and on the placard (or sticker) attached to the vehicle door edge, pillar, glovebox door or fuel filler flap."
I should note there were a lot of "book" excerpt hits, which were mostly regulatory, and which contained good information; but I'm not sure that the links will pan out the same for everyone given how Google Books works.
For example this had a horribly long cryptic link so I screenshotted it: o Maximum Cold Inflation and Load
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"The sidewalls of all passenger tires are marked to indicate the tires' maximum load capacity and maximum cold inflation pressure. It is important to remember that the maximum inflation numbers on a tire is its maximum inflation, not its recommended inflation. Tires should never be inflated beyond their maximum rating."
OK. I generally stop googling when the information does two things: a. There's nothing new with each hit, and, b. It repeats over and again, ad infinitum, the same stuff.
OK. Now armed with facts, let's go back to your question...
Seems to me it's pretty clear what it means... o Just as it was pretty clear soda bottles are tested only to 190 psi
After that number, I'd have no idea what's gonna happen, so... o I would simply strive to never exceed that number.
I wouldn't intuit any more... or any less... into that number.
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder:
Thanks for preaching to the choir, as the saying goes, with that Empire State Building tall trove of information regarding the maximum tire pressure listed on tires.
You and I both know and understand most of it. But for every two of us, there are 198 others that DON'T. That means 99 IGNORAMUSES PER every Arlen, and 99 CLUELESS DIMWITS for every 'K-Man', that don't know and probably don't care. If the majority of people don't even know how to vote for a president, why would we expect them to know which - the vehicle placard, or the tire - contains appropriate pressures for their vehicle?? Your expectations of what the average person knows, about anything, are above altitudes beyond which one can safely breathe without supplemental oxygen.
Again: it is for that vast majority of Ignoramuses and Clueless Dimwits that I recommend not including any inflation pressures on consumer tires. Instead, stamp literature into the sidewalls instructing people where to obtain proper inflation pressures for a variety of applications with the specific vehicle the tires were put on.
Reply to
thekmanrocks
: >
Tyre and rubber lubricant would be best, like the rubber grease used for brake components, but is expensive. A neutral pH soap turned into a gel is the easiest and safest solution.
Reply to
Xeno
:
I don't disagree.
In the early days (my first few tires), I didn't use _any_ lubricant! o But then, I didn't even know about the drop center in those days.
Oh how young and stupid I was when I was in my late 70s!
And, in the first half dozen or so tires I didn't even have a dedicated bead breaker (I only had the flimsy attachment to the tire changing stand).
Until it bent.
Every tool is useful, and every tool serves a purpose, even the lubricant: o Bead breaker (do not use the attachment on the HF tire changer) o Tire changer (do not even think of not bolting it to the cement!) o Valve remover (more useful for pull-type valve insertion than removal) o Valve core driver (I can't imagine _not_ having this $2 essential tool!) o Extra tire irons (you're not supposed to need them, but you just might) o Vise grips (the HF tire changing bar twists too much in your hands) o Balancing jig (the HF one works rather well for normal hub diameters) o Lubricant (whatever floats your boat - I use Costco green or blue stuff)
Some "stuff" I kind of sort of wish I had... o Professional bead lubricant & fancy brush o Bazooka bead blaster (so I don't need two people on the loose SUV tires) o Professional steel wheel weight removal hammer o Professional round studded grinder attachment (for repairs) o A better assortment of wheel weights (HF only sells the stick-on style) o A better assortment of patchplugs (the ones with the wire you pull thru) o An airgun
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder:
The lead issue is probably why hammer-on weights are becoming scarce, and not just in California. That, plus I'm sure a lot of newer tire techs are hammering any type of weight on to any material(aluminum, steel, composite, etc) of rim or wheel. There is a difference you know.
Reply to
thekmanrocks

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