Kia cylinder numbering system

KIA 2008 Rondo 2.7 Liter V-6.
Still trying to solve my P0302 (misfire cylinder 2) problem. Replaced the
three easy spark plugs, erased the codes, car ran fine for about 5 minutes
and then the code reappeared. BTW, I also switched the three coils hoping
the problem would prove a bad coil.
Anyway, now I have to do major wrenching to get to the three back spark plu
gs. The on-line service manual has no information on cylinder numbering.
Under specs. it does state that the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 !! I rathe
r doubt that unless they have a funny way of numbering cylinders.
Called one dealer's service dept. and, after 5 minutes on hold they told me
that cylinder number one is the one 'up-front'. I asked if 'up-front' mea
ns at the front bumper end of the car? Yes. I reminded her that there are
3 cylinders 'up-front'. Another 5 minutes and she told me it's the one on
the end. Gently I reminded her that there are 'two' ends to this bank of
three cylinders. 2 more minutes and she said it was the 'right' end, (that
would be the furthest from the timing belts).
Called second dealer and talked to service manager. Stated he did not know
(he's honest!) and would I please hold. After 10 minutes he said that cyl
inder number one is front left as you face the engine standing in front of
the timing belts. After all this effort I was too embarrassed to ask him w
hether the numbering thereafter continues straight back or zig-zag across.
Do any of you know? I plan on tearing into it tomorrow. I plan on switchi
ng the coils on that bank also in order to find out if it's a coil, or wiri
ng.
Thanks for any and all help.
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
ivanvegvary
in news:9665465.33.1326840415205.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prhb20:
I found this:
From belt end to trans end of cylinder head, the numbering is :
Firewall 1 - 3 - 5 ------------> transmission 2 - 4 - 6 radiator
here:
It's for the 3.3 version, but it's very unlikely Hyundai/Kia chose different numbering orders for different displacements.
By the way, a misfire code does NOT necessarily indicate problems with the ignition system. Misfire codes are also set when there's an EGR issue, an intake manifold gasket leak, or any other situation that results in cylinders failing to provide equal impulses to the crankshaft.
You would be wise to scan the engine with an OBD-II code reader for the many relevant parameters, before doing any more work.
Reply to
Tegger
three easy spark plugs, erased the codes, car ran fine for about 5 minutes and then the code reappeared. BTW, I also switched the three coils hoping the problem would prove a bad coil.
The on-line service manual has no information on cylinder numbering. Under specs. it does state that the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 !! I rather doubt that unless they have a funny way of numbering cylinders.
that cylinder number one is the one 'up-front'. I asked if 'up-front' means at the front bumper end of the car? Yes. I reminded her that there are 3 cylinders 'up-front'. Another 5 minutes and she told me it's the one on the end. Gently I reminded her that there are 'two' ends to this bank of three cylinders. 2 more minutes and she said it was the 'right' end, (that would be the furthest from the timing belts).
(he's honest!) and would I please hold. After 10 minutes he said that cylinder number one is front left as you face the engine standing in front of the timing belts. After all this effort I was too embarrassed to ask him whether the numbering thereafter continues straight back or zig-zag across.
the coils on that bank also in order to find out if it's a coil, or wiring.
Just because the code says "misfire", the cause may not be the plugs/coils. A clogged/bad fuel injector can cause same code. Before "major wrenching", try a can of injector cleaner ( I like SeaFoam) first. I had same symptoms on my car. Messing with plugs/coils made no difference. Injector cleaner fixed it.
Reply to
Reed
Thanks Tegger!!
I do have an OBD-II code reader (inexpensive HF model). Are you suggesting that a better reader would give me more detail than P0302?
Thanks again. BTW a third dealer's service dept. confirmed the same cylinder layout that you had illustrated. He (service mgr.) said it took him 4 hours on the KIA web site (all the manuals are on the web for free) to find the info. I still can't believe, even with the layout you had sent me, that the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6. Having spent 50 plus years around cars, this would seem to be a very unbalanced firing order. Of course with computer control, maybe not. Thanks again,
Ivan Vegvary
Reply to
ivanvegvary
(snip)
layout that you had illustrated. He (service mgr.) said it took him 4 hours on the KIA web site (all the manuals are on the web for free) to find the info.
order is 1-2-3-4-5-6. Having spent 50 plus years around cars, this would seem to be a very unbalanced firing order. Of course with computer control, maybe not.
GM had a v-6 in the 1980's that had 1-2-3-4-5-6 order. Seems to have more to do with crankshaft layout. See
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(NOTE, if Wiki is still blacked out, press escape key immediately as page starts to appear.
Reply to
Reed
that's not going to work in a vehicle that shuts the injectors down. at the very least, you'll need to clear the code to persuade it to inject again before any cleaner will start to work through.
besides, i'm pretty sure the computer knows the difference between misfire and clogged injector. the latter is preceded by the computer having to increase fuel pulse width as flow rate declines, so it should know to set a different code.
to prevent clogged injectors, it's better to use good quality gasoline that has a decent detergent package. or if you can't get that, injector cleaner once or twice a year.
Reply to
jim beam
This from
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P0302 Code - Cylinder #2 Misfire Technical Description
Cylinder #2 Misfire Detected What does that mean?
A P0302 code means that the the car's computer has detected that one of the engine's cylinders is not firing properly. In this case it's cylinder #2. Symptoms Symptoms may include:
* the engine may be harder to start * the engine may stumble / stumble, and/or hesitate * other symptoms may also be present
Causes
A code P0302 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:
*
Faulty spark plug or wire * Faulty coil (pack) * Faulty oxygen sensor(s) >>>>* Faulty fuel injector
Reply to
Reed
ok, but as you may or may not know, there are more codes than just the "0" series - the ones you're showing here. most manufacturers have "proprietary" codes in the "1" series, and as i stated before, it makes no programming sense to just use a "misfire" code when in fact it's a detectable injector problem for which you can trip a different code.
but all this talk is just as effective as the psychic hotline until the op actually bothers to put in new plugs - because as far as i'm able to understand, he still hasn't done so on the cylinder the computer is indicating has the problem.
Reply to
jim beam
in news:22834403.2488.1326912604557.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmu37:
Yes. A better reader, such as a laptop-based one, would give you most or all of the many engine parameters, which may help lead you to a solution.
Here's the one I have:
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Reply to
Tegger
Reed wrote in news:HJqdnYvHc- SB4orSnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
That's an inaccurate description. "Misfire" means that that cylinder isn't shoving the crankshaft around with the same force as the other cylinders. The ECM interprets and reports that mismatch as a "misfire".
The problem here is the term "misfire", which peple tend to associate with things like spark plugs and firearms. But in the OBD-II environment, "misfire" has the very different definition I gave above.
Reply to
Tegger
it's not simply a "moving" thing dude. or at least, shouldn't be on any half-way competent management system. a partially blocked injector requiring a wider fuel pulse width for example gives a completely different crank speed fluctuation signature - especially in the presence of a knock sensor - to a misfiring plug.
Reply to
jim beam
Me. And 1 serial-usb adapter.
Of course the LCD blew, and I haven't fired it up in a couple years.
There's still data on that POS I need to backup... when I can find the time... -----
- gpsman
Reply to
gpsman

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