Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 21:56:43 -0500:


I wasn't saying that the BBS part was better but I easily see how you may have construed that.
I was assuming (just guessing, really) that an expensive allow rim would likely run truer than a cheap steel wheel.
BTW, I also tested rim runout, which is *easy* once you have a tire changing machine and a static balancer because you can spin the rim on the tools with a dial gauge mounted on the wall or even with a flat wall nearby and a feeler gauge.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 04:47:30 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

A lot easier on a dynamic balancer.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Take it to a real tire shop and have a "mushroom" patch installed. It has a plug and a patch combined.. The "tech" product is one of the best.
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:30:26 -0500:

My plan is to take up Wheel Works on their offer of a free mushroom patch. I still can't believe that it's free.
I meant to go today, but, when I moved the car onto a flat area, I left the key in the ignition, so the bimmer never went to sleep.
Dunno why that killed the battery - but it did. So it's on the trickle charger as we speak, so, tomorrow I'll take Wheel Works up on their offer of a free mushroom patch.
I still can't believe they're free - so - tomorrow I'll let you know what happens.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

See his reply to this post. He has added a new word: FREE
--
Tekkie

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Tony Hwang wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:36:21 -0700:

Of course I do. I balance them *statically*. If you want, I'll snap a picture of my mounting and balance tools.
I use the stickon weights from HF. I bought quarter ounce zinc weights (California has a thing about lead). But I found 1/2 ounce is fine so next time I'll buy 1/2 ounce instead.
There is no vibration. At any speed. Yes I fully know EVERYONE swears you must dynamically balance. I know that.
But, guess what? My wheels don't vibrate. At any speed.
So what does that tell you?
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When I worked for Sears around 1970 all we had was the bubble balancer. I was told to slide the weights around the wheel in pairs, put one on the bottom and then put the other on the top for the final balance. Don't know if this did anything,but was the standard for them.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:35:00 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

On some tires it helped - on others it made it worse. Dynamic balancing balances the tire not only around the circumference bur from bead to bead - across the tread - and it does this inner to outer ballance at every point around the circumference of the tire. A tire can be statically ballanced and "wobble" like crazy, even though it does not "tramp".. It is more important on wheels with a large offset, either positive or negative, because the moving impalance is farther from the point where the contact patch and the steering axis meet.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 21:58:04 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

If your tires don't shake at any speed balancing only to the closest half ounce you are not very sensitive to shake or you don't drive very fast is all I can say.
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:36:19 -0500:

Maybe both are true.
I am not all that sensitive to anything (watch when people try to insult me, for example). And I don't go yelling out the window at someone who talks on their cellphone or who cuts me off. I just ignore them.
I also don't drive all that fast. Maybe 80 to 85 on the highway at most, which, as you know, is nothing on a California highway (I don't call 'em freeways 'cuz they're not free - CA has the highest gas tax in the nation).
Plus, I balanced them really well.
I have nothing against dynamic balancing except that it's not always needed. That's all.
If you mount and balance your own tires, the only thing that is hard to do is the dynamic balancing. Everything else is trivially easy to do at home. And cheap. All the tools cost less than one visit to the shop.
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On 12/7/2015 8:27 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Not according to this: http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-high-are-gas-taxes-your-state
This week’s tax map takes a look at state gasoline tax rates, using data from a recent report by the American Petroleum Institute. Pennsylvania has the highest rate of 51.60 cents per gallon (cpg), and is followed closely by New York (45.99 cpg), Hawaii (45.10 cpg), and California (42.35 cpg). On the other end of the spectrum, Alaska has the lowest rate at 12.25 cpg, but New Jersey (14.50 cpg) and South Carolina (16.75 cpg) aren’t far behind. These rates do not include the additional 18.40 cent federal excise tax.
Combined rate here http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/gasoline-tax-map.pdf
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Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 22:54:59 -0500:

Not really true. You were snowed.
Like any statistic, you have to look at the full picture.
California ostensibly *lowered* the gas tax recently; but they *raised* the sales tax.
To count one and not the other isn't telling the true story.
For example, this is from 2014, but look at the numbers: http://www.foxandhoundsdaily.com/2014/03/californias-gas-tax-nightmare/
"California consumers currently pay 71 cents per gallon in taxes every time they fill up their tanks. That’s the highest gas tax rate in the country. The average American pays less—about 50 cents per gallon."
It's sort of like your phone bill. You have to look at *all* the taxes and so-called "fees", which, on purpose, they break into a billion little pieces, just so they can fool people like you and me.
:)
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Danny D. posted for all of us...

IDK, ask the suspension.
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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Wow, 60 posts on "advise to patch a tire". Must be a very complicated repair.
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Ashton Crusher wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:58:06 -0700:

To be fair, the very first response gave the right answer: WWS TEXAS wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800
The rest is conversation. :)
I'm was gonna take the wheel and tire assembly to Wheel Works today simply because they said it would be free (I asked multiple times because I couldn't believe it) and that it would be a mushroom patchplug style repair from the inside.
They even do the unmounting, remounting, and balancing for that "free" amount (I'm incredulous).
I was fully prepared to do it myself, but, free is too good to pass up (but, I will be wary about them damaging my wheel or not mounting the tire EXACTLY where I match mounted it previously).
So, I "may" unmount the tire myself, and then remount it and rebalance it myself. Dunno yet if I'm gonna go that far, 'cuz free (totally free) is really hard to beat.
I'll let you know tomorrow. I was gonna go today but when I had to put the key in the ignition to straighten the wheels to jack the rear up to remove the tire, I accidentally left the key in the ignition.
Normally a bimmer goes to sleep in 16 minutes, but, apparently it doesn't do that when the key is in the ignition. So it's trickle charging overnight.
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Oren wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:36:10 -0800:

Hi Oren,
The number of posts don't matter (that just means I'm responsive). What matters is what *we* learn. Together. And, how we help each other.
And I *always* appreciate your help and that from the others! And, well, I learned far too much today!
Bad news! The tire is ruined.
Why? I'm soooooooo stupid. So very stupid. It's all my fault.
However, the good news is that I *learned* a lot! And, there's much (much) more to learn about patching tires properly!
I have to run to pick up my sister's kids (they're staying with us "temporarily" for the past year - which is ok with me - as long as my sister's latest loser boyfriend doesn't get on our nerves!), so I haven't uploaded the pictures yet, but, I'm gonna *experiment* with the tire, since I ruined it already.
It turns out that a proper patch requires some special tools and materials, such as explained in this quickie procedure.
1. Mark the hole outside and inside (circle 1/2" outside patch area) 2. Inspect for damage (no visible treads on the inside) 3. Probe the angle & thickness of the hole with a tapered awl 4. Optionally put down a solvent to remove the inside coat 5. Optionally use a half-moon scraper to scrape to vulcanized rubber 6. Buff with a semicircular tire-buffing wheel (2500to5000rpm only!) 7. CRITICAL! Three passes both ways with a carbide cutter!<=== critical! 8. Brass bristle brush and/or vacuum away shavings 9. Fill the hole with cement and around the patch area (to chalk circle) 10 DO NOT TOUCH THE STEM OF THE PATCHPLUG! 11. Pull patchplug through the hole until it slightly dimples 12. Roll a round serrated stitcher across every mm of the patch 13. Optionally add a tire liner sealer to the inside 14. Cut the rubber stem flush outside.
Most of the tools I might get away with a dremel tool (on super low speed) but I think the main tool that I need to buy is the carbide bit which is a special bit to smooth down the sharp ends of the cut belt.
Have you seen these tools in a kit? a. Half-moon scraper b. Semicircular buffing wheel c. Carbide cutter <=== very important d. Stitcher wheel
Anyway, I'll be back, as I took pictures, but I have to run to pick up the kids.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:09:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Not so smart now, I see.
Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety related stuff like tires and brakes)
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clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:01:16 -0500:

Heh heh ... you totally misunderstand the Dunning-Kruger effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Heh heh ... that's the kind of advice people give who are *not* on the home-repair or auto-tech groups.
I didn't ruin the tire repairing it. You simply *assumed* that because you *wanted* to assume that.
I never said that.
You clearly have an *agenda* and that agenda is apparently to tell us that we can't repair the simplest of things like tires.
Remind me to ask Oren to tell you how we select and buy and wind our own garage door torsion springs some day. Or how we compress the springs on our struts to replace them.
If you want the job done right, you do it yourself. It's not that the pros don't *know* how to do the job right. It's simply that we do it better because we delve into the details and we care about the results.
We're smart that way.
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On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:20:56 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

I guess you have to be to drive a B#mmer. Any company that would attach the engine mounts to the block with ALUMINUM BOLTS for crying out loud. Friend's wifes BMW had the engine fall right out of it's mounts when the bolts broke. Dealer cost to remove and replace those bolts? Somrthing like $1600.
It took him almost 4 hours. It's his wifes's car - he hates it but loves his wife. He's been a racer and car guy all his life, as well as an airplane guy (pilot and builder)
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Danny D. wrote:

Sounds like you are better than pro(reap pro) Good for you.
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