Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:02:14 -0500:

Naptha is easy to come by, so, that would be good news.

Heptane should also be easy to come by, so that would be good news.

Interestingly, one of the videos I posted said to not coat the stem of the patchplug with the glue. The other one didn't mention whether or not the stem (near the head of the patchplug) should be coated.

Do you lean toward putting the cement on the stem of the patchplug?

Reply to
Danny D.
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AMuzi wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:17:26 -0600:

This isn't the ladies' knitting group. This is a repair and tech group.

If we don't know the exact chemicals used in the three fluids, then we have no business being *on* this newsgroup.

Likewise, if we don't know the purpose of the five tools used in a decent patch repair, then we can't call ourselves all that knowledgeable.

None of us are born with this knowledge, but, those of you with experience can help impart your knowledge on the rest of us.

Reply to
Danny D.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:25:31 -0500:

I think naptha is fine.

Lowes has it by the gallon.

What I'm trying to source now is that final goopy tar sealant.

Any ideas what it's made up of?

Reply to
Danny D.

If someone who is not a licenced machanic does repairs on a car and those repairs cause a fatal or serious injury accident he CAN be charged with criminal negligence or criminal negligence causing death.

Tires are one of the most critical safety items on a car - along with brakes and steering. Anyone who has to ask numerous times for information about doing those jobs, and then totally ignores advice from "professionals" with decades of experience should most definitely NOT be working on those parts of a car - and if he does, and causes serious injury or death - he is guilty of at least terminal stupidity if not criminal negligence. Too bad stupidity isn't illegal.

At least unlike genius, stupidity is ultimately self limiting.

Reply to
clare

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:04:29 -0500:

This isn't the ladies' knitting group.

If we can't wind our own garage door springs, install our own struts, and patch our own tires, we shouldn't be on this newsgroup.

Nobody is born knowing this stuff, so, all I ask is that those of you who know what you're doing, just help out the rest of us to learn.

I already know *exactly* how to perform a proper repair. I know the tools. I know the fluids.

Now I'm thinking the fluids because most of these fluids are not

*special* to tires is my thinking.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

For example, if the prebuff is Naptha, that's *easy* to come by. The one fluid I don't know the composition of is the final sealer.

Any idea what that final sealer is made out of?

Reply to
Danny D.

It is to clean/debride the inside of the puncture to allow the patch to vulcanize properly as well as handling the steel belts. HOWEVER- there are many punctures that do not break the steel cord - and then using a carbide to "cut" the cord is counterproductive.

Reply to
clare

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:17:09 -0500:

Ah. Butyl Rubber is what the inner tire rubber is made out of. Hydro treated heavy paraffin petroleum distillates? Hmmmm... that sounds like "tar".

Carbon black & di(benzothiazol-2-yl) disulphide sounds like the vulcanization process all by itself.

Zinc oxide? Hmmm... I wonder what that does? Butyl rubber resin? I guess that's the final "varnish" on the top.

If it's *that* complex, then that means we'll never find a suitable replacement in the box stores.

Like I said, this isn't the ladies' knitting newsgroup. We can *think* things through here.

I already know *exactly* how to do it right. I'm just thinking it further through, from the standpoint of a non professional, who will only be doing the job once every few years, so, essentially, all the fluids will be used only once.

They'll be dry before they ever get used again, so, that's why it's a good idea to second source the fluids, if it's possible.

It looks like two of the three fluids are easy to come by:

  1. Pre-buff = Naptha is easy to find anywhere
  2. Vulcanizing Cement = Easy to find anywhere
  3. Innerliner sealer = this 'tar' may be harder to come by
Reply to
Danny D.

Vic Smith wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:52:02 -0600:

Exactly my point. This isn't the ladies' knitting group.

This is what we talk about.

In this case, we (at least "I") have learned *how* to perform a proper punctured tire repair.

Remember when everyone said we couldn't choose different sized garage door torsion springs and install them ourselves? Well, as you know, I've done about a dozen since then, and with the right supplier (Dan at DDM Doors!), it's *easy* and practical to replace our crappy 10K cycle torsion springs with 70K cycle springs, for less than the cost of a professional repair with the crappy springs. The only special tool needed is a steel bar, but, you must know what you're doing (because you can kill yourself).

This isn't any different a quest. I've already proven it is practical to mount and balance your own tires. I've done five of them (actually six, because I did an SUV tire also).

They balanced perfectly with a static balancer and with meticulous match mounting on the rim. Maybe I was lucky, or, maybe I was just meticulous, but, it's practical since it pays for itself in the very first job.

I'm just trying to find out if a proper home repair of a punctured tire is practical.

Hence, that's why I'm trying to source the three fluids at a home box store (two of the three fluids seem easily sourced).

Then I will try to source the tools, most importantly that carbide bit.

Does anyone know where we can get a carbide bit for the tires at the home box stores?

Reply to
Danny D.

Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:51:09 -0500:

Just to let folks know, Wheel Works, here in California, will patch the tires properly and rebalance the wheel and even remount it on the car, for free.

So, if the tire had not been ruined, that's the most cost effective way to go.

You get a perfectly safe patch for free.

Reply to
Danny D.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:25:27 -0500:

Hmmmmmmm.... that's interesting.

How can a puncture *not* break the steel cord?

Reply to
Danny D.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:15:03 -0500:

Did you ever have tires mounted or an alignment and you watched the "professional" do the job all wrong?

I have.

So, at the very least, we all should know how this plugpatch job is done correctly. If for no other reason, than to be intelligent when we watch someone else do the repair, so that we know if *they* did the job right.

At the moment, I think we all know *exactly* how to do the repair properly (following the well-established RMA procedures).

We also know exactly what 5 tools and 3 chemicals to use.

The *only* thing left is to see if we can intelligently second source any of the 5 tools and 3 chemicals so that we can use them for other purposes around the home and car.

Reply to
Danny D.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:20:42 -0500:

Whom are you talking about? I haven't ignored a single thing said in this thread. I have been very responsive, and I have added value wherever I could.

In fact, I think, based on the advice, and the research I did, and my talking with the guys at Goodyear, Wheelworks, and Costco today, that I know *exactly* how to properly repair a punctured tire.

Let's repeat that we are not in a ladies' knitting group. The whole point of the repair and tech group is to discuss such things.

There is nothing wrong with learning tricks for doing the job safely and correctly.

For example, I wonder if a masonry nail can suffice for a poor-man's alternative to the carbide drill bit?

What do you think, given the purpose is to smooth the cut belts?

Reply to
Danny D.

Yeah, but it is 40 hours driving time for me to get there.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:13:42 -0500:

Yup. Convenience plays a role.

For me, since I already own the tire mounting/dismounting and balancing tools, it's convenient for me to repair my own tires properly.

But, for others, I can see how it might not be convenient for them to repair their own tires properly.

Reply to
Danny D.

UPDATE:

Here is a *fantastic* set of resources, which, by the way, proves that snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca was right on the money when he said that the fluids were what they are!

Note that the tire repair procedure below is excellently detailed!

Web page:

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MSDS:
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Procedure:
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Catalog:
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  1. Pre-buffing Cleaner Fluid (Solvent) 100% Naphtha (petroleum), hydrotreated light CAS Number 64742-49-0, EC Number:265-151-9
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    MSDS
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  2. Fast Dry Self-Vulcanizing Cement 60-100% Naphtha (petroleum), hydrotreated light CAS:64742-49-0 30-45% Heptane CAS:142-82-5 0-30% 3-Methylhexane CAS:589-34-4 0-20% Methylcyclohexane CAS:108-87-2,EC:203-634-3 0-15% 2-methylhexane CAS:591-76-4 1-5% zinc dibutyl dithiocarbamate CAS:35884-05-0 0-5% 3-ethylpentane CAS:617-78-7 0-5% 2,3dimethylpentane CAS:565-59-3 4% Natural Rubber
Reply to
Danny D.

UPDATE:

This seems to be the set of tools needed to do a perfect job:

  1. STEELMAN JSG381 1/8-Inch Tire Repair Patch/Plug Combo, Box of 25 ()
  2. STEELMAN 00028-S Tire Inner Liner Scraper ()
  3. STEELMAN SLP9305A Tungsten Carbide Buffing Wheel with Adapter ()
  4. STEELMAN 00029 Tire Repair Stitcher ()
  5. Shark BT30 Carbide Bur with 2-Inch Flute and 0.3125-Inch Diameter ()

The only somewhat expensive tool is the carbide cutter, so, if you know of a good second source, that would be helpful.

The rest of the special tools are dirt cheap in contrast.

Reply to
Danny D.

Bullshit. Before he's done, he'll know far more about how to correctly plug a tire than 99% of the so-called "professionals," who are mostly kids working in various tire chain stores. He's overkilling it, and so are you. When did they outlaw amateur DIY car repairs? Why do they sell plug kits at all auto parts stores? I've bought them, and plugged tires with them.

Reply to
Vic Smith

Ideally you want the cleaner/prebuff and cement to come from the same vendor. And regarding your carbide tool question, it's feet per minute so speed depends on the size of the tool.

Reply to
AMuzi

Another path would be to approach this from the side of social engineering. Rather than a gallon of each for one tire patch, you might cultivate a local tire shop (or tractor supply or such), do your path with him at the end of the day using his tools and supplies/materials and leave a crisp $50. If your goal is education, start with someone who knows the area and is nearby for advice as you go along.

Reply to
AMuzi

AMuzi wrote, on Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:19:47 -0600:

That would work, but, I'm gonna take the "homeowner" route.

That is, I know how badly most homeowners do it (they buy the $5 string-plug kit, shove the thing in with glue, twist, pull out, and cut.

So, "my" repair can't be as bad as that typical homeowner repair, no matter *what* I do!

I already bought a few tools, most important of which is the rasp and the stitcher, so, I'm fine with respect to tools (the scraper and buffer are pretty much finesse - remember - compared to the "typical" homeowner job).

The one tool I pine for is the carbide reamer. I think what I will do is look for a carbide reamer in the box stores. I might even break the handle off of the hand reamers, and put that "bit" into the drill at 500 RPM to see if that works.

Once I have the carbide reamer, that's all I really need. So, here's the shortcut to a "decent" repair:

  1. buff the inside
  2. ream with a carbide bit
  3. glue in the patchplug

The one solution that really has no decent alternative yet is the final covering of the rubberized carbon-black naptha.

Reply to
Danny D.

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