R12 Freon

R-12 is still available in large quantities. There is PLENTY left, and it is still being recycled. Its expensive (order of $50 per pound) but given how much it saves in other problems, it usually winds up being cheaper than converting unless you're already going to replace a lot of components.

IMO, the best "alternative" refrigerant is R-406a (aka 'Autofrost') but it too requires an EPA certification for purchase and many A/C shops flatly won't deal with any blended refrigerants at all- only R-12 or R-134a- so unless you are lucky enough to have a local R-406a shop or plan to do it yourself, you may be out of luck.

Some cars that have large condensor coils in proportion to the evaporator coil size convert to R-134a very well- my 1969 Dodge works superbly on R-134a with original type compressor, condensor, and evaporator. But most vehicles that were originally equipped with R-12 will lose between 10% and 40% of their cooling capacity if converted to R-134a- minivans and SUV's being the worst because their condensors are already undersized relative to the large (and often dual) evaporator coils.

You can buy R-12 on Ebay for roughly $25-30 per pound.

You should change:

1) Compressor oil 2) Accumulator 3) Orifice tube 4) Install a high pressure cutoff on the high side (R-12 systems usually just have low-side cutoff, you want both)

Doc

I don't know what Canadian law is, regarding transportation of refrigerants.

I occasionally end up in mechanic waiting rooms reading industry magazines and see ads for products such as Freeze-12, and other substitutes, any words of advice on those?

How easy is it to come by an AC shop that uses the R-406a substitute?

And also if a mechanic refuses to use real R-12, and puts in R-134a, and it locks up the compressor, what can I do to fix it? This happened in a 1988 Buick Century I owned four years ago. I asked this mechanic to service the A/C, spent $70, and he added R-134a, saying it could mix with R-12 just fine, with an oil charge, he put in the R-134a, the charge, and the A/C broke down within three blocks. Was working fine before this but not very cold except after highway runs.

I don't go to that mechanic anymore, btw. I now have a 1988 Dodge Dynasty with an R-12 system and when it breaks down I want to be able to get it working again without spending $1000+.

Check the EPA website for whether they are an approved substitute and check aircondition.com for comments by those using them.

i suspect you'd need to start phoning around and ask the local shops.

Replace the compressor, flush the entire system and start over.

This tells me that you were running it with a low charge to begin with. Low on charge equals no lubricant circulation. The blame lies with you, not the mechanic.

If $1000 is what it takes to do the job correctly and you're unwilling to have the job done correctly, you get exactly what you pay for.

any g*dd*m idiot who mixes R-12 amd R-134a deserves to be beaten until he can't stand up, then be strangled with his gauge-set hoses

I wanted to read your post before I replied:

I have only one thing to add Mr. Surgeon.

He should also be made to eat shit, so next time he speaks such shit. The stench will warn the people of what he is speaking.

Refinish King

PS

I heard Freeze 12 works great. One thing though. Since it contains HCFC-22, hoses needs to be changed with barrier hose. The old style R12 hose is quite permeable to R-22.

You may have to change the receiver/dryer too.

Small claims court, then a better mechanic.

Your compressor WILL lock up. The oil in R-12 can not circulate when used with R-134a, so compressor will oil starve and seize itself up.

To _properly_ retrofit a system for R-134a, you need to change the oil, flush the system and possibly the dryer/receiver, then evacuated before adding R-134a

Gee, lookit there. The kid who just days ago was asking super-basic queestions about how to check his A/C system is a sudden expert on A/C service and retrofit work. Doesn't matter that his facts are wrong, just as long as he feels he's been authoritative.

Whatta crock.

bull

the 'change hose' thing is a thing of the past

So went the theory- but it turns out that once the inside of the hose has been exposed to refrigerant oil the permeability tends to drop to zilch. The oil forms a pretty effective barrier, so hose changes aren't NECESSARY. But still a good idea.

You should ALWAYS change the dryer, so that's a moot point. Freeze12 has poorer performance curves than R-406a, also, but it does seem to be more widely distributed.