re: increased ethanol in gas - ?

Hi all,

I just caught part of a news item on television that seemed to say that congress was considering a suggestion that All gasoline would be required to be an ethanol blend at fairly high ethanol content. Apparently a move to reduce gas prices.

My understanding was that older vehicles required standard unleaded with less than 5% ethanol and newer vehicles could use up to 10%.

In my area there is now a station selling E85 which was advertised for newer trucks and E20 (apparently 20% ethanol)

Has anyone else heard of this move and should it be a real concern to owners of older vehicles ?

I have an 1989 Buick Park Avenue V6 3.8l.

regards

Reply to
marks542004
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No, it's a move to funnel yet more money to Archer Daniels Midland, the company that produces the overwhelmingly vast majority of fuel-grade ethanol in the US.

You think Congress cares that your car won't run right, will get poorer gas mileage, and may be damaged?

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Minnesota has passed a law requiring ALL automotive gasoline sold in state to be E20 by 2012. They have carefully skirted the issue (ducked maybe is a better word) about voiding of new car warranties. Just bought a new car, and warranty will run out in 2012- hope they don't start using it BEFORE the deadline.

Reply to
Don Stauffer

As someone who derives a significant amount of income from growing corn, this is a terrific plan. As a car owner, I say this is another stupid move. As an engineer, I say "What are they thinking?"

There is no way this is going to reduce the cost of fuel - at least not in the foreseeable future. I think a better idea is to require all diesel vehicles to burn peanut oil. I used to derive a significant portion of my income from growing peanuts, but Mr. Bush fixed that. However requiring heavy trucks to burn peanut oil could help fix that and reduce our dependence on foreign oil (but not ADM - since they are big player in the peanut industry too).

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I think any type of biodiesel would be derived from soybeans. I'm no farmer, but IIRC soybeans provide more oil per pound than peanuts.

Processing any type of vegetable oil into motor fuel still requires a great deal of alcohol; perhaps another farm industry boon as far as this goes.

Personally if I saw a 100% US-made fuel at the pump that was twice the price of import oil mixes... I'd definitely buy it. (I drive a V8 powered car, but only very few miles per year FWIW.)

Reply to
scromwell2

Actually peanuts contain a higher proportion of oil than soybeans.

Alcohol? Why?

Not me.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I think you would have to look at the total economics of producing the oil rather than the yield per weight. Land use, cultivation costs, production yield, etc would have to be boiled down to a total cost per unit weight of oil produced. You might find it more economical to plant pine trees, for example, and harvest both oil, pulp wood, and logs than to concentrate on peanuts or soybeans. I havent done the research but it might be interesting to do this.

Because the viscous vegetable oil triglycerides are transesterified with alcohols to yield less viscous monoesters. Methanol, ethanol, propanols, or butanols can be used in theory. All are usually easiest prepared from petroleum, but ethanol can easily be prepared by biological processes.

Reply to
<HLS

[snip>

Word has it that coconut oil (can be used after only filtering through 10 micron filters).

shakiro

[snip>
Reply to
shakiro

Yes, coconut oil, yellow oil (waste from food preparation), and many others can be used. Methods of purification, if necessary, vary. They may be blended with diesel to reduce the viscosity, etc. But, clearly, yes, they can be used under the right conditions.

Reply to
<HLS

Last week someone emailed me some references in the bio-diesel thread. One of the pages also had a link to the ethanol- energy efficiency question. This page has several very good papers on the subject.

journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Reply to
Don Stauffer

Im anxious to have a read, Don. The only thing clear about our energy policy is that we don't really have one.

A lot of Americans still think we can use cheap, clean natural gas for everything. Guess again.. we dont consistently produce enough natural gas to meet our needs, and we are importing NGL in special supertankers to keep our heads above water. Think what will happen if one of those detonates, say in San Diego harbor.

Reply to
<HLS

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