Repair Fraud?

True in cases where the problem requires diagnosis, not true in other cases where the likely parts are well known before going in as in a brake job. Customer brings vehicle X in for brakes all around, you know you will need pads/shoes and perhaps a hardware kit.

Ok, so why can't you live with a 20% markup on parts like the parts store? Simple because then you would have to increase your labor rate and you want to post a seemingly low labor rate. This is in my opinion deceptive.

And that buyers remorse is influenced by a distorted accounting of the costs. If the average person looks at a bill that shows say $50 in parts and $100 in labor and they know they can buy the part for $20 they are more likely to get upset than if the bill shows $20 for the part and $130 for labor. People will cringe at the labor rate and say "I wish I made that much per hour", but they will get upset at the overpriced part.

Again you're overreacting. As I noted above it's a case of perception, the bottom line total may be the same, but on parts where anyone can compare costs readily, inflating the cost there hurts the perception.

Huh? Not sure what you're getting at here. The point was that lawyers will litigate anything no matter how ridiculous as long as they are confident that they will get paid.

Again my point was not the total cost, it was the itemizing of that cost in a distorted way.

Not as convenient for reading in the can though.

I use a combination of DLT tape and CD-R/DVD-R media these days for my personal systems. The USB "thumb drives" or any of the flash card media types aren't bad either as they have become quite inexpensive for a decent capacity. They also fit nicely in the smallest safe deposit box where a full sized CD/DVD won't.

Also a lot nicer than getting paged at 3am to restore from backups.

If you're talking the published "book" time for various repairs. I'm talking about what I consider valid labor time on the invoice you hand me. I count the active time spent dealing with my vehicles repair.

But the 20% markup from wholesale to retail isn't enough?

I'm not particularly interested in how they work it for OEM warranty repairs since I don't pay for them. I'm interested in the labor time on my invoice and what I consider appropriate. I'm generally pretty reasonable on such things and generally allow more than the standard "book" time in my estimates. If they get it done in the book time I'm pleasantly surprised.

Perception. Perception is everything. When the customer sees a 4X markup on a part they can readily check the retail price on they perceive they are being ripped off, regardless of whether the labor rate is $15/hr lower than it would otherwise be.

Small sample, but widely diverse as in multiple states. I also have info from others that confirms that this large markup is common.

I suppose I am more understanding than typical customers, I understand the details of how the particular parts work and I understand the costs associated with running a garage. Where I have problems is poor customer service, shoddy work and deceptive pricing.

If I am going to bring my vehicle in for work I look at what parts will be needed and their retail cost and the amount of time I expect the work to take and the shop's labor rate. From this I should be able to estimate the total cost for the work. Excessive markup on parts causes this estimate to be off and it should not be that way. It is deceptive to post a lower labor rate and then make it up in excessive parts costs which may not be fully accounted for on an estimate.

There is in a state with few independent shops left, particularly when the dealer is within walking distance of work.

And that is why I yelled at the service manager, not the mechanic.

Probably left the gas cap at the station as well. A lot of that adult ADD these days.

Wasn't really relevant. I resolved the problem and made them aware of it. Had I just called them and had them tow and fix the problem it would not have made any difference in my final assessment.

The final assessment was that they did a shoddy job, missed at least two opportunities (QC and road test) to catch the mistake and put my safety at risk in the process. How they would have handled it after the fact would not change any of that.

Yea, but this is the 14 bolt 10.5" full floating axle that has been around since the stone age. I've read numerous articles on it, particularly in off road magazines and never heard mention of it eating axle seals. The clutch is also nothing exotic and probably the same design they've used since the switch from mechanical linkage to hydraulic linkage.

That's what I said before making sure there were no raised burrs and then applying some red RTV to fill the buggered areas and hopefully prevent leakage on the outside of the seal.

One of the reasons I just gave up on taking the truck anywhere and just do things myself as much as possible. You'd probably get a kick out of the "robo foot" I threw together to assist in bleeding the brakes by myself. A few Unistrut parts and a pneumatic cylinder from my parts bin. Lets me lay on the creeper and work the bleeder screw while also working the brake pedal.

Pete C.

My only question is.... why haven't you opened a shop yet? Hire a few good techs and a service writer, Sell parts at cost, or better yet, let the customers bring in their own parts. In a few years you'll probably own a chain of auto repair shops. Rather than trying to convince others to change their ways you should beat 'em at their own game. You've got all the answers, why not cash in? Bob

Actually, I don't know what the car needs until it's up in the air and the wheels are off. Estimating and/or ordering parts by your method is borderline malpractice.

Huh? Where in any of these posts did I mention what my markup percentage is?

Except that you have no idea, evidence or proof of what my parts mark up is, thusly, your insinuation of deception is bogus to say the least. Try this Pete; reply to what I post, not what your emotions and prejudices tell you to.

Since when do "costs" have anything to do with the ultimate price of a given product?

Then they should go buy the $20 part and install it. It's their choice to see or ignore the value.

No, then they will compare my higher labor rate to the one down the street which is lower and accuse me of being a cheat, liar and rip-off, totally ignoring the denominator of me not marking up my parts.

Nope.

It's their warped perception, it's their problem.

What I'm getting at is that he was giving me advice that would help me avoid litigation and thusly, a loss in income for himself, making your lawyer jabs irrelevant, misplaced and meaningless.

Nothing distorted about it, I provide service AND goods, since doing so requires an expenditure of time independent of each other, I'm entitled if I so choose to make a profit or at least an income on both. In addition, by virtue of good business sense, I'm obligated to stand behind not only the service but the goods also, and since the manufacturing process is not foolproof, the goods can and do fail during the time period that I agreed to stand behind that particular 'goods.' The supplier isn't going to reimburse me for the lost time involved in replacing that part and since I am of no use to the rest of my customers if I go out of business due to financial losses associated with working for free, the parts get marked up accordingly in an effort to stave off what would otherwise become a failed business.

Actually, the PDA has a wireless card ;-) I can log on to i-ATN, order parts, check the weather, read e-mail, etc. makes me -very- efficient. Perhaps one day I'll install a news client in the PDA and post a "me go plop-plop" to alt.tasteless live

I'll chug along with the zip drive until it gives up the ghost, I'd rather waste the money now on a new digital camera and an i-pod nano. But you're right about the thumb drives and CF/SD cards, that kind of storage space would have been unbelievable back when I got my first laptop in 93 (a Grid with 2 meg of ram and a 16meg hard drive IIRC)

Sounds like maybe your stuff is a little more critical than mine, I'd merely suffer an 8am awww shit and then dump it in the wife's hands to recreate from the hard copies because you know it won't happen until that ONE time you forget to back up at the end of the day... Yeah, it's old and slow, but so is the Ford tri-motor I'm going up in on Sunday. 8-)

That's the system that has been in existence as long as I can remember, while not perfect, it has do do given the circumstances.

Given a particular geographic location, maybe not. I live in one of the wealthiest counties in the U.S. lots of new cars under warranty, not so many older cars so actual repairs are fewer and farther between then what might be 25 miles south of here. Real estate is more expensive, gasoline is more expensive, taxes are higher, now, the prevailing labor rates have to have some element of parity between us independents and the dealerships, the dealership labor rate is largely controlled by what the OEMs are willing to pay for warranty work, so sure, I could blast my labor rate up $20-$30 above everyone else, but like _YOU_ said, there's that perception thing workin' for ya.

More often than not, the published aftermarket (customer pay) labor time is just the warranty time with an added percentage to account for age related issues. Customers will not accept not knowing what the labor bill is until the repair is completed so something HAS to come out of a standardized book in order to generate an estimate, it has long been industry practice to pay the mechanic for his labor according to that published time. Some time the times are ridiculously high, sometimes ridiculously low, the idea then is that at some point equilibrium is reached, the customer gets a fair value (no matter how the ticket is itemized) and (hopefully) the mechanic gets a decent take home.

Referring to what you do for a living, not what a shop is quoting you?

That's the thing, the customer has no way of knowing if they are comparing like items, i.e., of same quality (we've been over this before). The other unknown is whether the parts house is low balling them because they for whatever reason prefer retail walk-in customers versus wholesale it's going out on their truck customers such as myself. This was a source of contention when NAPA corporate owned the store in my town and quite frankly, I have no way of knowing what they're quoting to walk-in customers under new ownership because I'm not a walk-in customer.

See my last paragraph...

in some way you are, in some way you aren't.

When I see deceptive pricing, I see the sign outside Midas Muffler or Mieneke offering $39.95 per axle brake jobs, no one has ever gotten out the door for that price.

Thing is, to get away from that which you disdain, all shops in a given area would have to agree to operate that way, and that isn't going to happen for various reasons, chief among them being that the federal government takes dim view of collusion on pricing in a given industry.

These independent shops are no longer around because? Curious, which state is this?

Yeah, he can be a bird brain at times... he owns a graphics and signage shop on the main drag (truck lettering and that sort of stuff) if he sees me drive by, he always calls me on my cell phone, so there I am trying to make the corner to go to NAPA juggling the phone while negotiating a corner right about the time I'm taking a swig of coffee in a 3/4 ton truck. Oh well.

Perhaps not but it was a lesson lost. (for them, not you)

Yeah, I don't know what it is about doing a simple test drive. Seems some just can't be convinced that it's necessary.

I know it well.

I thought maybe it might have been a dual mass flywheel or something.

Should work.

Ummm... this IS very scary....

Sounds very much like the one I built about nine years ago, fits in between the seat bottom and the brake pedal, mine uses a scrounged gas station hoist control valve to apply and vent the air pressure from the cylinder, for the cylinder I used a $10 mechanics suction gun. I regulate the inlet air down to 3 PSI or so... a little double sided velcro to keep the shoe from walking off the brake pedal. It wowed the hell out of a couple of the pocket protector types at Rockwell Automation (aka Allen-Bradley) Problem is, now everyone wants one.

Too tired from doing the work myself since I can't find a good mechanic.

Pete C.

That depends on what the customer is asking for. When I make an appointment with a shop and give them a list of items I want done, I'm not asking for their opinion or diagnosis, I'm giving them a specific list of tasks to do. If I say replace pads and shoes all around, rear axle seals and front rotors ('cause one is buggered from a stuck caliper), that's what I expect to be done. It's different if I come in and give you a list of symptoms and say find and fix the problem.

I don't know what your markup is specifically, but it's been established that the markup at many shops is far more than 20%.

"Your" in this case is referring to a shop that is known to have a high parts markup, the subject of this thread, not your specific shop. Certainly not all shops are the same.

Last I knew "costs" had a very large impact on the ultimate price.

It's certainly their choice. The problem is that this perception of a rip-off is a large part of what fuels the overall public image of mechanics as crooks.

I've never heard of someone being called a cheat or liar for being more expensive. Rip-off perhaps.

The public's perception of your business, or businesses of your type in general *is* your problem. If the public at large perceives mechanics as crooks your starting off bad to begin with regardless of how good your work is.

Ok, I see what your getting at. However my point about lawyers litigating anything they can make a profit on still stands.

Good business sense also dictates that your prices for a particular product should be in line with the area norms. In the case of auto parts you're looking at installed vs. uninstalled costs when comparing to a parts store. If you look at any other example of installed vs. uninstalled, the price of the item remains essentially the same and the installation cost is separate. This applies to appliances, windows, roofing, etc. Only in the auto repair industry is it the norm to significantly markup the parts cost *and* also charge labor.

I never said you don't have to account for the warranty overhead, just that it was misplaced applying it to the parts cost and that doing so served to fuel the public perception of mechanics as crooks.

I've got one too. Unfortunately trying to read a PDF service manual on that small screen is difficult at best.

A digital camera is really handy for auto work too. Before pictures sure help you reassemble things and it's also handy to be able to take a picture of a part before you put it back on so you can drive to the store to get a replacement for it. Digital cameras are also great for home project like drain lines under a sink, a couple pics and then go to the store for parts referring to the pics on the camera to figure out what will fit and then just delete the pics when you're done.

I've also used a small video camera and an LCD monitor to remotely watch an area while I was working on a repair. Even worse I've used a netcam to watch my ribs and brisket on the smoker while I'm working in my office at the other end of the house.

Bank system and data are probably a bit more critical, but with the fairly low cost of internal RAID controllers these days and their availability for ATA type disks instead of just SCSI they are a good investment for any business system.

Backups should be an automatic scheduled process, not manual. Windows includes a batch scheduling function these days so it's pretty easy to implement.

That equilibrium for the customer would only happen if they have a number of repair transactions to that they actually see the average. If they only come in for a few repairs and those happen to be the overpriced ones, they get screwed. Of course if they happen to be the underpriced repairs then they get a really good deal.

No, in my estimates of how long the repair should take. I have enough of an idea of what is involved in the repair and what efficiencies are gained from a real shop environment to judge whether the "book" time is high or low.

I never said the customer perception was fully objective, just that I feel that high markups on parts negatively impacts that perception.

Yea, and if they do, they aren't likely to be stopping at the next traffic light either.

Not true, one shop that does good work can influence the market around them. Granted they take a bit of a risk in doing so, but it is possible to promote your new pricing structure and educate the public to some extent. Of course one shop that does bad work can also influence the market around them, which can be a problem.

Connecticut. A combination of factors at work I think.

Most of the independents were also gas stations and with the issues of leaking underground tanks and the cost of removal replacement and remediation, most of the independents were driven out of business. Only the corporate owned stations could afford to essentially rebuild and they don't do service.

Additionally the overall auto market of the state changed with the influx of PYVs (Plastic Yuppie Vermin) invading the state from Boston and NYC. This brought with it the 2yr car replacement which put most repair work under warranty at the dealers.

There are still some independent shops, but they are mostly in the northwest corner and the east side of the state where it is still rural. If you work in Hartford as I did, it would be inconvenient to get to most independent shops.

The graphic types tend to be short on the mechanical skills just as the mechanical types tend to be short on the graphic skills.

On more than one occasion I've had to ask a passenger to please shut up as I'm trying to maneuver the crew cab dually 1T through downtown traffic. With the cell phone I just drop them in my lap and pickup when I'm done with the maneuver.

I'd hope the opportunity to inspect the damage and see how close it came to setting the whole truck on fire would provide this lesson.

Not necessary if you just replaced an A/C compressor or similar item that has little bearing on driving performance. A clutch replacement on the other hand should be a no-brainer.

So why the hell did they design it so you have to tear the entire hub apart just to change the shoes? Good grief what a pain vs. the just pull the drum type.

Don't think so, appears to be a run-of-the-mill if somewhat large clutch, 13" I think.

Hope so, if not I'll have to either replace the hub or perhaps JB Weld or TIG to rebuild the damaged areas and then refinish on the lathe. As I side note, since I've found the red RTV it's all I use. Soooo much better than the blue stuff.

Quick and dirty, the only fab work required was to bore one Unistrut bracket to pass the 1" dia piston rod. I didn't even use an air valve, I just used the airline quick disconnects to pressurize and depressurize the cylinder. Set the regulator to about 10 psi to provide about 50# force.

Pete C.

For the last few years, your $10,000 in a bank wouldn't earn you enough interest to be worth a lot. 0.3% or something like that. Mark up the part 6% and you would make 20 times what that money would make in the bank.

But your point is strong enough. You can't work for nothing.

I think most people would be more than willing to pay a reasonable price for competent work. But define 'reasonable' and 'competent'.

A lot of times, especially at dealerships in the larger cities, they don't get either a reasonable price or competent work.

The main problem is that far too many "competent" techs realized that they could earn a more "reasonable" wage by changing careers. I know many of them and not a one regrets the decision. Bob

Ahh, so no one out there is as good as you. Now I understand. Bob

But we're not talking about -you- specifically Pete, we're talking about shop management in general and how it relates to the typical motorist most of which don't have the time or inclination to ferret out what exactly needs to be done on their vehicle.

When I had my left knee replaced in 2001, do you honestly believe that the hospital charged me their cost for the joint? I guarantee you they marked it up in the hundreds of percent. The aspirin they gave me to reduce fever was marked up in the thousands of percent. If I replace a $5 PCV grommet to cure a lean trouble code, why shouldn't I sell it for double what I paid to make up for the phone time spent calling it in and the interruption time when it was delivered?

The subject of this thread is "repair fraud." if the OP authorized the work to be done at the price he paid, there is/was no fraud. A sudden realization that it might have been done cheaper elsewhere is not ground to claim fraud, it is however grounds to claim stupid consumer. So now we need to add 'protect the customer from himself' to the job description? I don't think so.

In one direction they do, in the other, they don't.

So, why does this perception only occur after the fact, and why is it the shops fault that the customer chose it in the sequence he did? At the very worst, the OP got a cheap education.

The OP did business with someone who he thinks was more expensive than he liked and now believes that he was defrauded, how can the semantics of cheat, liar or rip-off not be used interchangeably.

I don't know that the public -at large- perceives mechanics as crooks. I suspect that any disdain WRT the trade in general is more so fostered upon ignorance on the consumers part. The public in general really has no idea of what is involved in repairing cars day in and day out. Ever hear the phrase "can't you just plug your computer into it and have it tell you what's wrong?" the average consumer thinks that my AC recovery/recycle/recharge machine is a computer that I merely need to plug into their can and it will tell me why their air conditioning doesn't work. They think a scan tool is a computer that we just plug in and it provides all the answers. The engine analyzer is the grand pooba, it does everything -and- then some.

Like I said, their warped perceptions are their problem. I'd rather focus on the real issues that effect perceptions, things like greasy floors, poor grammar, orange rags hanging out of a pocket, lack of training, greasy steering wheels, etc. There are legitimate perceptions that might make one question whether they're dealing with a grease monkey versus a trained professional technician. Then there are illegitimate perceptions where one thinks they know better how to assign profits to cost centers than the person charged with keeping the business afloat, feeding his family and other such foolish non-essentials.

All true, it's just that your point really wasn't germane to the issue at hand.

BINGO! Now you got it!

Apples and oranges.

No, not exclusive to the auto repair industry. I know for a fact that the company that refinished my deck last year marked up the stain and sealer. The company that resealed my concrete driveway marked up the sealer that they used. The company that repaved the road in front of my house in 2001 marked up the sand and gravel, concrete, sewer covers and light poles that went into the project. The company that cleans and maintains my neighbors swimming pool marks up the chemicals that they use. Plumbers mark up pipe, fitting, faucets, toilets, drains, water heaters and building permits. Electricians are identical. Lawn care, same deal. Janitorial services, same thing. Maybe it all just means that the above providers are better at not letting their customers run their businesses than the companies who are in the home theater business.

If it's the part that's being warranted (either literally or figuratively) why wouldn't you assign the mark up to the part. Do you honestly believe that the anticipated warranty costs on your truck when new weren't part of what GM marked the truck up to? If I hadn't marked up the R-134a left over from last year to the market prices prevalent this year, how would I have replaced the

30# jug this summer when it ran dry? I'd have been in the red considering that R-134a literally quadrupled overnight.

heh-heh...

Yup, very handy. I snap pictures of failed components for customers, sometime I snap pictures to cover my ass, snap a picture of the VIN, much quicker than jotting it down on a notepad. Looking to get something nicer than the 1.3 Mp HP battery devouring thing I've got now. Pretty sure the new one will be a Canon, 4 or 5 MP

That last one is pretty ingenious.

Ah, see, computers to you are what cars, trucks and on the odd occasion boats are to me. My computers are tools for the most part and although I enjoy the accomplishment of setting up my own wireless network and such, they are not a vocation.

Ah, got it.

Out and out gouging, absolutely.

It's the advertisement of the impossible/nonexistent that is out and out fraud.

Not in this industry. Too many customer only concern themselves with price, not quality and they wouldn't recognize value if their life depended on it.

Ain't gonna happen. The public still thinks that there is a magic computer box that tells us everything that is wrong with their car.

In a small market, yes, in a large market, probably not.

Largely because potato chips and soda pop are much more profitable than repair services.

Love the PYV thing, almost made coffee come out of my nose. Situation sounds an awful lot like around here.

Ya got that right!

Can implanted cell phone be far off?

A nice fat tow bill on them would have been a nice exclamation point though.

But driving has an effect on AC performance, so, AC work always gets a test drive, especially with R-134a.

Shoulda bought a Dodge? Hell, I'm still trying to understand why Ford thinks it's good that the intake manifold needs to come off to replace a camshaft position sensor on an Escort. Just about ever other manufacturer manages to put it somewhat accessible. Good drive axle otherwise...

The one I like is a product called "The Right Stuff." Avoid the Cheeze Whiz can though, go for the caulking gun style. There are various Japanese and Euro OEM RTV gasket substitutes that are incredible as well, though they may be a little harder to find. MoPar RTVs are designed for specific fluids and are excellent but a bit pricey.

Are these shots in the rec.crafts.metalworking dropbox?

Yup, very similar to my concoction. I'd find the quick connect part for apply/vent to be a bit awkward or cumbersome. All I can say is; great minds think alike.

I'd e-mail you pix of mine if you're curious.

I might have been having a flashback...

Reasonable; at an agreeable price where the customer feels comfortable with the value he's receiving.

Competent; (in this case) returned to functioning as new performance in a workmanship like manner with no added problems.

Because they don't have to. The customer pool is very large. re: PT Barnum

Probably right. This happens not only in automobile repair, but lots of other industries. It could be worse...they could have been teachers...sorriest paid job around for a profession that requires at least a bachelors degree and preferably a masters...They have to put up with shitty kids, shitty parents, shitty administrators, come early, stay late, and get paid a shitty wage. And that is why only the very dedicated, or those who are too hopeless to do anything else, stay in the profession.

We used to say; the Vasaline goes over here, and the foundry sand goes over there, we'll mix em together later...

I'm quite sure there are mechanics far better than I am. Problem is I think they all work for racing teams and not at local garages. I do the work myself since I am not under the time pressures the garages are and I can take the time to do the job carefully and with attention to detail, even if it takes me quite a bit longer than the local garage would take. It also sometimes provides the excuse to purchase new tools which is always a good thing.

Pete C.

In article , Agave long, informative, and very civil thread that otherwise could have

Very unlike me, 'eh?

I'm thinkin' that someone hijacked my account...;-)

No, I'm far from typical.

The hospitals have a bit different situation as unlike the typical auto shop, hospitals have emergency rooms where they have to treat everyone regardless of payment. They have to gouge everywhere they can to try to compensate. Hospitals also have to upgrade equipment and tools more frequently than an auto shop.

The $70/hr and perhaps 30 minute minimum don't cover that adequately?

Well clearly there isn't actual fraud, but there is a negative perception by the customer which could likely have been avoided by pricing the part closer to average retail and adjusting the labor/shop rate appropriately.

It's been my experience that most people have the perception that they will be ripped off before they even walk into the shop. Certainly there are exceptions and some people have found shops that they are quite happy with.

I have had one good experience with a shop and it was an independent one as well. I was some 1,700 miles from home when the fuel pump on my truck died. Had I been home I would have tackled it myself, but away from my shop and tools and with time constraints this wasn't an option. Fortunately I had someone available to give me a ride from my stricken truck to the local auto shop.

I talked to them and explained the situation and they were fortunately able to fit me in that day. Since I had already done the troubleshooting in the parking lot where my truck was stuck, they were able to start chasing after a replacement pump while I stopped at the local hardware store for some supplies and went back to the lot to siphon out as much of the 34 gallons of gas as possible (yes the tank was full).

They stopped by with the tow truck an hour or so later and brought the truck back to the shop. The net result is that they got the pump replaced that day at a quite reasonable price (forget exactly), particularly given the four guys they had wrestling with the tank and the rusty hanger bolts.

Ignorance is certainly a big part of it, but I believe there have been some surveys that have indicated that it was a widely held perception.

Absolutely the general public has little knowledge of auto repair. Used to be most people did oil changes themselves, now most people don't even know how to check their oil much less change it.

Certainly doesn't provide all the answers, just provides far better information on symptoms than the average customers description and of course say essentially nothing about problems outside the engine.

Certainly more that one factor that influences customer perceptions. Again though it certainly appears that the negative customer perception that started this thread could have been avoided.

Do they mark up the products they provide significantly above typical retail cost while purchasing in bulk at wholesale cost? If the typical retail cost on the deck sealer was $20/gal, they purchase it at $10/gal and then they provided it at $60/gal I think you'd be a bit upset. If they provide it at $20/gal, they're still making profit from it, but they don't create the negative perception.

Because the part manufacturer is providing the warranty on the part, not you. You are providing the warranty on the labor to replace the part should it fail, the manufacturer will provide the replacement part. The cost of the labor warranty should fall under the labor category, not the part category.

Certainly any company providing a warranty has done the analysis to determine the expected costs and account for them in the pricing of the part and the manufacturers of the parts you are installing are no exception.

Operating capital? The budget that funds the inventory before sale?

I got a Kodak 3.1 Mp that was on sale some time ago, largely because it used SD cards like my iPaq. I've been remarkably happy with it's performance.

I'm really a "certified jack of all trades" as there is not a lot that I don't do. I've done audio and video production and engineering, stereo and VCR service, CNC machine tool service, Printing, pre press and bindery work, baking, welding, machining, construction / remodeling, electrical, plumbing, HVAC...

I've got a few odd projects posted on me web site

I'm sure they did a $39.95 / axle brake job on a Yugo at some point at one of their shops.

The acceptance of mediocrity in exchange for low price is a problem in most industries.

Well, it would, if the auto manufacturers would put another $100 worth of sensors in cars.

More profitable and very low overhead.

The Bluetooth headsets are pretty much that.

Yea, but it would also have inconvenienced me. Of course a flatbed bringing in the charred remnants of my truck would sure have gotten their attention.

Certainly a good idea, but not quite as critical as for a new clutch.

To my knowledge Dodge did not produce a crew cab in '97. The Ford crew cabs at the time had significantly shorter rear doors unlike the Chevy where they are about the same size as the front doors.

Serviceability certainly has been declining. I remember with my full sized blazer I could sit inside the engine compartment to change the plugs. I can't do that on the current truck.

The limited slip that thinks it's a locker can be a bit harsh at times, particularly on the U turns in some parking lots when there is sand on the pavement.

I don't go through enough for the larger packaging, so I just get the small Permatex tubes.

Yep. They are appropriate for there too as I used a 1" end mill in my Bridgeport 1J to machine the Unistrut bracket to fit the cylinder rod.

Not really that awkward, particularly at 10 PSI. If I had a suitable valve on hand I would have used it.

Sure, just remove the .DOH.

Pete C.

You just made my point, I've got $20.00 that says you can't get the parts in two days... Or are you just FOS???

SteveL Send me an address to send the cash to... pakeha1.at.earthlink.net

**************** Absolutely right.

**************** Right on target. If not 'as new', as near to original performance as possible. **************** 'Suckers', as Barnum referred to them, were fair game. The suckers have pretty much proliferated, while the circuses are rare indeed nowadays.

I think not. You proved for me that parts procurement takes time, sometimes more than one might expect.

Your $20.00 wouldn't even buy 24 minutes of my time.

Or are you just FOS???

FOS lives over on highway 143.