Used Oil Analysis of CAMRY'S Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 after 4,920 miles

Toyota, much like most of the asian makers, still offer the ultra lame ILSAC GF-x (x=4 these days) oil recommendation, along with an SAE weight (usually 5W30 until recently). Thank God for them telling me to use ILSAC GF-4 oil, otherwise I would just buy anything off the shelf (which would automatically be GF-4) - so what's the point, really? GF-4 certification is mostly concerned with the oil's fuel efficiency. I couldn't care less. The other day I noticed that a bottle of olive oil in our pantry was GF-4 certified. Whoopty. A better alternative would be to create a specific set of oil requirements like the big 3 and most euros do, then offer them in specification packages, i.e. Toy1 for older cars, Toy2 for 5W20, Toy3 for 0W20 hybrid ICEs, etc. If the major lube companies wanted to sell more oil they would have to get on board and offer products that would get tested then meet Toyota specific certs. Honda/Acura did it for just a couple of cars (HTO-06 spec) *and* several companies then jumped on board and offered reasonably priced HTO-06 cert oils, so certainly Toyota could get on the ball and at least come up with a spec for the SAE 5W20 class that dominates their oil requirements from about 2005-on.

The good thing is that Toyotas don't and never have required any special level of oil technology to prevent *mechanical wear*. The bad thing is that some of their engines would sludge faster than other manufacturers' engines when the oil wasn't either A) changed at an appropriate frequency for driving habits or B) designed with superior acid fighting additives as found in some high dollar full synths RE: ACEA rated products.

Clearly the cheaper maintenance option is to use $2.75/qt oil and change appropriately. Soccer mom driving habits require frequent oil changes or very expensive oil. Toyota just had pushed the limits of reduced PCV and some other design factors I don't quite understand to aid in fuel efficiency and driveability. Other makes had plenty of sludging problems for the same reasons, but weren't as prolific as the mass number of post '96 5S-FEs and 1MZ-FEs. Those engines accounted for most of the Toyota powerplants for nearly a decade. I promise you that you can sludge a Zetec, a VTEC, a Hemi, a semi, whatever you got, with inappropriate oil change frequency for your unique driving habits.

You are much more correct than your tough guy buddy on this topic.

I believe that the issue was not overall high operating temperature, but some particular places in the block where the oil passed rather slowly across very heated metal. An oil with a higher breakdown point would prevent the formation of sludge. An oil with better solvent characteristics would prevent the sludge from being deposited after being formed. An oil that was changed more often would prevent the sludge from increasing to the level where it was deposited. Change your oil every 3,000 miles and don't worry.

--scott

Wait, these are the people that eat balut? And they shy away at a little bit of cardboard?

It's a special new scientific soy sauce!

Dunno, but I will say that soy sauce factories don't smell so hot either.

--scott

I dont know that heat alone was the answer. I am not sure that that was ever settled openly and scientifically.

We do know that some of those engines had a tendency to form "sludge" if run too long. It could have been heat, but also could have been contamination from the PCV system, or a combination of things.

At the time, IIRC, Toyota specified 7500 mile oil changes. Now they have dropped it to 5000 miles, but still dont specify synthetic.

Hydrocarbons - ALL hydrocarbons, including synthetics - can deteriorate if exposed to extreme conditions....moisture, oxygen, acid or acid gases, extreme shear (VI improvers go first, but even the shorter chains can be sheared in time), dilution by fuel, etc..

I dont challenge that with synthetics (at least some of them) you can tailor the properties to be what you want them to be and can some up with some very good specifications.

You could possibly match that by carefully refining petroleum oils, selecting ideal distillation ranges, hydrogenating, etc...But if you did this, you would in essence have something that was "synthetic" and that would cost darn near as much as, or more than, the "real" synthetics.

I do believe that Toyota knew what had happened but never fully disclosed it. They were magnanimous in repairing the most of those cars, but they never really totally accepted the blame.

I guess that problem was magically cured, by engineering or by oil change specs, and I hope it does not come back to haunt us.

When I change the oil on our Avalon and on the new Solara, the oil is clear and nonturbid, slightly amber, and totally freeflowing.

Since I do it myself, I will continue to do it at 3500-4000 miles, and will bet you a beer that I never have any lubricant related problems.

Block heaters cost to much to run

If we wanted cardboard, we'd order cardboard.

I guess their problem is they forgot to wash the hair first. Otherwise, hey, give the customer a choice, eh?

Imagine what they could do with chicken feathers!

I believe it! Is it a kind of heavy musty smell? That's what I get from Aspergillus oryzae. Took a couple of months for the smell to completely dissipate from my garage.

Michael

I believe they hydrolyze it to carnitine.

Does that make it taste better?

Well major modifications like that will probably require re- certification with the EPA. And instead of re-certify all their engines it's probably easier to reduce the oil change interval.

And my guess is that's precisely why Toyota reduced the oil change interval from 7500 miles to 5000 miles in 2004 for ALL it's models -- because they're more likely to sludge. This happens during a time when GM and Honda extended to 12,000 miles and European cars on synthetics were running 15K-20K mile intervals for years.

Interesting! Audi is a small division of VW, but June happens to be the best sales month in 2009 for Audi.

Said Johan de Nysschen, President, Audi of America. “The trend is clear: Audi is outperforming the rest of the imported luxury car market on a percentage basis. And this is happening without extraordinary discounting and other gimmicks. It is a testament to the long-term momentum Audi has developed and the caliber of our products in the freshest fleet out there.”

So we'll see.

So why would a 1997 5SFE engine's oil flow more slowly than a 1996

I wonder if the averages are just owners using typical dino or dino/ blend engine oil?

And if synthetic falls within dino range, what does it mean?

Sidestepping your question by just concerning changes to the top of the engine, the valve cover and baffling is different, the PCV valve has been relocated and is a different part number, and my unscientific observations are that the PCV orifice is smaller on the 97-up. I mention these changes because I believe PCV restriction is a major contributor to increased sludging. As far as a physical difference that might have anything to do with oil flow or drainback, the 97-up 5S-FE was tilted significantly compared to the upright 96-back orientation. The oil pan was angled to compensate. Many changes in head design and manifolds, etc.

All this said, older 5S engines would coke or sludge, but it wasn't made out to be as big of a deal. Plenty of exhaust valve seals got destroyed on 3S and 5S engines, mostly the ones that had at least a darkish brown varnish on all internal metal parts. My personal engines never looked like that inside. Go figure.

One MORE than yo' mama, apparently.

Toyota made the passages in the block smaller....in order to raise the operating temperature to give better environmental figures. Another reason why environuts are whack jobs.

It is used for food additives, flavoring, IIRC>

Dont talk that way about my brother...

That's the question, and to find out you're gonna have to cut it open and see what they changed in the design of the oil galleries. I bet it's a very minor configuration change that had a big affect. Maybe there's a sharp corner that used to be rounded or a rounded corner that used to be sharp. It's going to be something that trivial-looking.

--scott

Is it 1000w? I pay 0.16 per 1000w, so leave it on all night, I will say 6 hrs, thats 1$ a day, 30$ a month. My syn oil only costs 30$ more and lasts about 6 months the way I have been driving, So Syn oil is better it costs less than a block heater to run by a factor of 5x. You still dont factor in its superior performance at high temp, reduced friction. And what does a block heater cost and cost to install, I guess you figure its free. 0w30 Mobil One is what I am using, about