2005 Avalon Purchase

Make sure the one you buy is built in Japan. :>)

How do you determine that? Will a dealer give you a straight answer, or is there some way to tell on the vehicle itself. Local dealer here has none in inventory --- all must be ordered, so how do you control where what you order is built?

Toyota describes the new Avalon as the most American Toyota vehicle ever, and I'm quite sure it is built in the USA.

As with any newly redesigned vehicle, discounts will be relatively small to begin with. I'm considering an Avalon Limited, and I've been quoted discounts in the $2,000 range ... and I think that's still at least $2,000 over dealer invoice on a Limited, which can price out at $36,000 or so with couple of options.

I think the new Avalon is far better looking than its predecessors. More sophisticated. However, there are a lot of other excellent cars in that 30-35 grand price. You could buy a Lexus ES330 for about the same price as a loaded Avalon. Consumer Reports likes the Acura TL, calling it the "best" in the class, and it appears to be in the same price range (mid 30's) according to the new CR Auto Issue. I'm ging to look at an Acura TL before I commit to an Avalon.

I believe all Avalons sold in the U.S. are assembled in Georgetown, KY so Art's advice is difficult to follow.

The Avalon has a reputation as Toyota's Buick; a Grampa car. The new '05 looks like an improvement to me, but the concept has not changed. With ANY new car, I'm concerned about possible "bugs" or defects that need correction. I looked at a new Avalon. One piece of trim on the dash was loose, and the sales rep could not get the remote start to work, so there might be some things for Toyota to work on. Take some time to see ho the car works out. Prices will probably come down, too. What's the rush. Don't get emotional about buying a depreciating asset like a car. Just me.

Actually it is easy to follow..... don't buy a 2005 Avalon in the US. No matter what Consumer Reports says, the Avalon has never been up to the quality of traditional Toyota's. Perhaps the 2005 will be different but I would want to drive one that has 12k miles on it to see if it too is a rattle box which has been the experience of others with earlier model Avalons.

There are also reports in the auto news media of the transmission hunting and hanging...

I don't have the link.

Does that mean you don't believe one should buy a Camry, Tacoma or Tundra which are assembled in the US as well?

I have news for you, build quality of any product is a function of management not the people assembling the product as any manufacture knows. The county of assembly does not make any difference in the final product when management does it job of assuring the build quality meets their specs.

mike hunt

Art wrote:

I test drove an Avalon Limited this week (twice), along with a Lexus ES 330 (three times) at various dealers in the Sacramento CA area. My impressions:

1. Engine: Avalon is more stronger and more responsive and moves as soon as you press the accelerator. With Lexus, there is an annoying lag before it accelerates, and sometimes you have to "stab" the pedal to get a downshift. There is somewhat more engine noise with the Avalon, but not bad. I much prefer the Avalon engine. It feels more like a V8, which I am accustomed to. The Lexus salesman told me that Toyota is using the Avalon to "field test" the new engine, and next year the tweaked engine will be used in Lexus models. The gas mileage is rated higher with the Avalon, even though it has a lot more horsepower. I also drove the new Lexus GS. Their

6 cylinder is a better engine than the ES 330, but the GS is at least $5K higher and more performance-oriented. Being in short supply, they were not discounting from MSRP.

1. Transmission: Both seem to "hunt" and shift up and down excessively during normal driving. Even a minor increase in speed seems to require the transmission to downshift. But with the Lexus, you don't notice it as much because the cabin is so well insulated from the noise of the power train. I would give the edge to Lexus.

2. Ride quality: About the same. Lexus has a somewhat softer ride but benefits from the handling options for better cornering. Considering that both cars are front-wheel drive and most of the weight is up front, they corner well.

1. Exterior and interior styling is more up-to-date with the Avalon, since it is a new generation. I prefer the exterior styling of the Avalon but like the interior of the Lexus, especially the elegant look of the dashboard. Lexus uses real wood trim vs. simulated wood finish on the Avalon, although the Avalon trim looks like real wood. The back seat legroom in the Avalon is better than the Lexus and one of the best in the industry.

2. Price: The Lexus is being heavily discounted (e.g. 00 or more off of MSRP). The Avalon is in short supply, but one dealer offered to sell the car for about 00 below MSRP. Since there is a K difference between MSRP and dealer invoice on a loaded Avalon, the dealer has a lot of room to bargain. I assume that when the supply increases later this year, discounts will be better. I received Costco membership quotes on both cars, but they were not as good as some other internet quotes.

1. The Lexus name is more upscale than the Avalon, if that is important to you. My guess is that the Lexus won't depreciate as much, but time will tell.

2. Buying Experience: The Lexus dealers are much easier to deal with, and didn't rush me to buy. The Toyota salesman tried every trick in the book to high-pressure me into buying the car only 10 minutes after I arrived. The Lexus sales persons also knew their product better than the Toyota sales persons. The difference is like night and day, at least in my experience. I have heard that the service departments are much better with Lexus. Lexus has 4-year warranty vs. 3 years for Avalon.

1. Summary: In my opinion, Lexus is more luxurious, conservative, and a better value for the money, but the sluggish engine response discouraged me from buying. I recommend the Avalon. I was impressed with every aspect of the car, especially the engine performance.

All of the above is only my humble opinion. Flames are not necessary. :>)

Regards, Key Bored

The rattle complaints about the new Camry posted here were inevitably copies made in the US, not Japan.

I think you'll like the Avalon just fine, but you almost sound like you'd rather have the Lexus. If that's the case, and you look for things you do not like about the Avalon, you will probably find things to dislike. If you trade, you are guaranteed to pay the price for a couple of reasons. 1. Dealers always effectively pay a wholesale price for your trade-in. 2. In all liklihood, you will pay a premium price for being among the first buyers of a new model like the Avalon. Discounts at this time are relatively small, based on what I've seen. Better deals may take a couple of months or so.

avoid the ES series, too much problem with transmission quirkiness. The car tries too hard to make your decisions for you, and it ends up confused and stupid...

I bought a new 2002 ES300, built in Japan, and it was, and still is, a "rattle box". Toyota's engineers design the parts for Americans to assemble. The weakness is that they are now just using pressure-pin methods instead of screws, which increases the likelihood for rattles.

The Lexus ES series all over again... Toyota learned how to screw up a transmission when they released the 2002 ES300, and they haven't learned otherwise yet if this is true about the new Avalon.

Excellent dissertation. Don't forget that Lexus service is terribly overpriced.

"Steve Larson" snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAM.com wrote in news:tnZ%d.42364$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

Sounds exactly like a politician or bureaucrat.