Daniel Howes: Prices we pay for gas drive behavior

Get real. Not enough BTUs, really? Better do a bit of geological research. Speak to a spelunker or ask hunter or camper that goes to one of the old mine shafts in summer to cool down, and in winter to get warm.

If one goes deep enough it starts to get warmer. Ask a miner that works in one of South Africans extraordinarily deep miles

Who would want to drink 55 degree coffee in any event? . LOL

mike

Yes, really.

What color is the sky in your world. LOL

mike

Geothermal heating and cooling seems like an environut's dream. No solar panels to spoil the view in the back yard or the appearance of the roof, no wind turbines for the birds to have to fly around, no batteries to pollute landfills, no new hydroelectric dams, no greenhouse gases generated, no holes in the ozone. Professional protesters and complainers would have to come up with a new reason to convince the media to publish their stories. Perhaps they could claim that robbing the heat from the ground is contributing to global cooling in the winter and global warming in the summer, that way they have all the seasons covered. ;-)

The idea is not to heat water enough to reheat coffee or take a shower, it is to get the air temp up to 55 degrees so that the structure's conventional heating system only has to raise the fresh air intake 20 degrees if it happens to be below 55 degrees outside.

Even if you throw in a heat pump into this discussion it still won't work. Period.

Perhaps you do not understand the design intent of the system.

The system is NOT intended to provide ALL of the heat in a structure or replace whatever conventional heater is already installed in the structure. Even though the system could not replace a conventional heater, it would provide SOME heat and reduce the conventional heater's work load, kind of like a head start or a pre-heater.

When you say "it won't work, period" are you saying that the system will not reduce the demand on the heater? If so, why would it not work?

I actually like the look of the solar panels on my roof. It also starts conversations constantly (viewed as a good thing). Tomes

There isn't enough thermal mass. The recovery rate is less than thermal loss. There isn't enough BTU's. Do you own a home that has absolutely no thermal transfer?

I wish I had seen this post of yours before committing to the one I posted earlier. You haven't any desire to understand the why's and the why nots. Ok play your retarded games. I fold.

I guess I'm totally missing your point, or we're talking apples and oranges. I am all for learning from someone who knows more about a subject than I do, but "it won't work" doesn't help me understand much.

The information on these sites that I got from a google search "geothermal heating" lead me to believe that the systems work and are already in use:

Some of the sites mention high installation cost and lack of qualified installation contractors as a drawback, but those drawbacks can be overcome somewhat with economies of scale and more widespread adoption.

Mea culpa, "environut" was a poor choice of words. I believe that the advantages of geothermal heating that I listed are real, and I also believe that professional protesters and complainers aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. By "professional protester," I am not talking about people who are trying to make a positive difference in the world; I applaud those individuals. By "professional protester," I am talking about people all over the political and social spectrum who never have anything positive to say and look at a problem as a means to further their "cause" instead of as an opportunity to silently do the right thing without calling the media first.

Re this discussion on "geothermal heating"... I think much of the confusion arises from mis-use of the term "geothermal". I understand that to mean the serious amount of heat produced by processes such as localised leaking from volcanic vents: think of geysers in (eg) Yellowstone Park.

The process being advocated for heating a building in a normal situation would be "ground sourced heat pumping", qv. This is a very close cousin to the "air sourced" pumping we know well, exemplified by those a/c units hanging outside many US windows which exchange heat with the air.

AIUI, ground sourced heat pumps are vastly more effective than air sourced units because, at latitudes of nations like the US and central Europe, digging down a couple of metres brings you to where the temperature remains around 12C (53.6F) throughout the year. 12C is closer to temperatures required of a typical a/c unit (I like 16C warm, 21C cool) than temperatures handled by typical air sourced units (40C+ to sub-freezing), so effort needed to pump heat up the thermal gradient is smaller.

Ground sourced heat pumps have arrived. Anyone who doubts the cost advantages needs an education, in a big fat (hot) hurry.

One problem they do have is, because of that thermal gradient, heating water to higher than gentle temperatures (suitable for washing and under-floor c/heating) gets more expensive, due to the greater effort required, so wall radiators are tricky.

Just want you to know 4 years in heating and refrigeration, and apprenticing in heating and cooling, doesn't mean I'm capable of teaching special ed. I'm glad you joined the discussion.

You're welcome. I just hope I got it right. (Have been looking into the business of building an eco-friendly house, which leads a person down some odd alleys of research, these days.)

Great explanation! Thanks

There are commercially viable ground heat sink systems available, on the market as we speak, that do exactly as was posted. As with solar, because of economies of scale they are expensive, in addition one needs to drill a

mike

There is a bit of practical info on this web site (ignore wrap):

However, Wolseley are a huge international company, doing roughly half its business in the US, so they may have a US-oriented site. (Mainly, they sell bits for houses. I own a few shares in them.)

Other pages, about other green hardware, may also be of interest. But not everything they offer is necessarily the best deal. AIUI rival solar collector schemes are available. But the basic facts may be useful.