Daytime Runnig LIghts.

Bother to read the words "...in the same part of the sky throughout the year..."

Once again, when *you* consider me a 'whack job', that's a ringing endorsement of my accuracy.

"..............haven't got DTRs, then I turn the headlights on in daytime. Frankly, I don't get the strategy behind DTRs, I gotta think that simply switching the headlamps on any time motor is running would be as good or better.

------------------------- I gotta agree with you, I too think headlights on with the engine would be much better...I suspect that the 'powers that be' may have thought that DRL's would likely be better accepted than 'everything on', and we'd end up with -some- safety at least. The DTR module costs $350, the relay that turns the lights on with the ignition costs about $5. I'll let you do the math ... HINT It's a numbers game. Bigger numbers always win.

-------------------- Not that simple. The DRL control module also has the Twilight Sentinel circuitry. Additionally, your factory DRL control turns ON only the headlights at a slightly reduced voltage. The remaining lights (instrumentation, front and side marker lights, and tail lights) do not illuminate in DRL mode. Philip

-----------------------

It doesn't even look like the headlights are illuminated on my Camry, It looks like a different set of lights. I think the voltage in this case is quite a bit lower. Whenever they are on at night they don't help me see much of anything.

I agree. The whole idea behind DRL's is to be SEEN not to see. And they run at lower voltage to help increase the MPG as opposed to what it would be to run the headlights and dash and side lights ALL DAY AND NIGHT. The more accessories you run the lower your fuel effeciency is going to be. THAT is the reason they set it up the way they did.

CP

Would you KINDLY set your newsreader to quote correctly? Or GET a newsreader! I'm tired of patching up your posts. The reason this post is quotes correctly is because I FIXED it.

Now, some cars use the low beams at reduced voltage while some use only the high beams at reduced voltage. There have been a car or two that have used only the high beams at full voltage. So if you are haveing difficulty descerning which lights are being used for DRL on your car, maybe you should withdraw from the discussion. Your other rationalizations regarding fuel efficiency and lighting pure nonsense. Bottle that crap and sell it on eBay.

There are also vehicles that have separate bulbs for the DRLs. One example I can think of is the GM full-size trucks or even some of their SUVs.

We're getting off topic again. Could we please get back to politics.

But Phillip, so what if the other lights are on or not?

We know what the DRL module does, and the twilight sentinel isn't a standard feature of all DRLs, it's an option. That is, there are lots of cars with DRLs that haven't got a twilight sentinel.

If the goal was ONLY to have other cars see you coming, that task could be accomplished for less than $1 on the production line. DRLs present an opportunity for cash flow by offering greater capability and more complexity than is required. And complexity equals profits because if they make it complex then the engineering costs are billed on a per unit basis, and wholesale parts costs are turned into retail parts profits.

And, a simple relay that is picked when the engine starts can be wired to power the headlamps and nothing else. This would leave the driver in the dark when the sun goes down, and he would have to swtich the lighting system on the old fashion way, flip the switch. Again, the goal that DRLs accomplish can be met for about a buck on the production line, maybe 5 bucks.

Now THAT makes sense. They don't save you and I very much gas, but fleet-wide they save lots of gas, and there is the real benefit of the reduced wattage. Geez, I can drive my Metro with all of the lights ablaze and burn unnecessary gas, just like the guy in the Hummer in the next lane. ;-)

Please explain in detail how a 23W light is better to attract the attention of idiots than a 55W light.

When you are done explaining that, then explain why a $350 module is better for me than a $5 relay.

PS I have no idea what the module costs, I pulled the $350 figure out of my ass. I have no reason to think this number is out of line, but if anybody knows what the module really costs, please enlighten me.

And there are Corvettes, Buicks, Pontiacs, and Freightliner semi trucks that use the amber turnsignals (brighter element) as DRLs. So what? Do we need to list ALL the variations? This is a TOYOTA forum.

It's all a bunch of feel-good whoey that has the potential to save a buck or two on vehcile production by eliminating or paring down the headlamp switch. But of course, there is now a DRL/Twilight Sentinel module and photo cell that was not required before. So, DRLs add to the cost of the vehicle.

-philip

You all do NOT know what the DRL module does. The posts in this thread showcase the ignorance. Twilight Sentinel is standard on Toyota systems of late. This is a Toyota forum. We don't care what Chevrolet et al does.

There ya go. DRLs add to production costs. I mentioned this earlier.

That is one function of the DRL module. It has a wire that goes directly to the alternator field coil. Engine starts, voltage exceeds 12 volts, DRL turn ON.

Some prevailing wisdom decided that having the tail lamps ON all day made it more difficult under some conditions to differentiate brake/turn signals from tail lights. Remember, US built cars intended for domestic sales and operation are (A) not required to have amber turn signals, (B) required to have ONLY red brake lights, (C) prohibited from having simultaneously operating red and amber brake lights.

In the case of my 2003 Corolla (whose DRLs were deactivated), the instrumentation lights are NOT illuminated in DRL mode. This may not seem relevant until you consider that the fluorescent digital clock display is tied to the instrumentation. So when the headlamps turn ON, the clock display dims (unless you have your instrumentation dialed full bright). Given sufficient input from a spectrum of consumers, nothing is going to stay simple. Look how the simple word processor evolved into Microsoft Office!

- Philip

Having a veritible fleet of cars in my driveway, none of which have DRLs, I've never had a problem reading the clock in daytime while the headlamps were on.

I agree that there are huge benefits of DRLs, but I'm saying that they could have done the same thing for much less than a whole new module to direct the orchestration of the lighting system. This view isn't directed at Toyota, the entire automobile industry went off the deep end here in the creation of the DRL module, and the supplemental lights on the front of the car. The goal is to make other drivers eee you coming in daytime, switching the headlights on would have accomplished this without all of the other gyrations that accompany the system.

When I turn my lights on with the light switch, then I have all of the issues with separate brake lights, etc. that you cite. But I've got $50 bucks in my pocket that says I could find a place to splice in a suitable relay that would turn the head lights on and off with the key/engine, and leave all of the other lights alone. And, I could splice this into the existing wire loom, which shows that it could be accomplished on the production line for virtually no added cost. (Of course there is added cost, but it would be very small if they did in production the very same thing I could do at home.)

Ideal solution would be as you said in a previous post: splice in a relay to ensure that your lights come on when you start the engine.

Do you understand that instrumentation and clock display brilliance are tied to the Twilight Sentinel ... not the DRL?

You must be agreeing with somebody else. LOL

*That's because you do not seem to understand the complexities.* IF ANYBODY was going to find the cheapest way out of this DRL delemma, it would be Ford. Ford uses a DRL module. There is also a body ECM in just about all cars and trucks these days, making another little solid state lighting module a given.

See previous response. *

See previous response. **

When I disabled the DRLs on my new Corolla in 2003, a DRL module was $178 USD. That's full retail. Cost at the manufacturing level, who knows!

Re: Daytime Runnig LIghts.

Would you KINDLY set your newsreader to quote correctly? Or GET a newsreader! ----------- What's a newsreader?

--------------------------------------- The reason this post is quotes correctly is because I FIXED it.

----------- Thank you.

------------------ Webtv doesn't work well with ebay...

CP

I SHOULD have known. A WebTV'r. Get a computer!