Does Avalon Need Premium Gas

Always entertaining to hear an American whinging about fuel prices.

How'd you like to pay $6.40 per gallon (US) of fuel? That's what we've ended up paying over here!

At those sorts of prices, diesel-fueled Toyotas make a lot more sense, and you'd be surprised how fast most of 'em are, too.

Read between the lines the owner's manual's statement on fuel requirements. The exact phrasing used on my 2000 Avalon was written with a forked tongue. There are idiots who want to be told their new baby is go good and great that it must have only the most expensive fuel. If that is what you want to hear then that is what Toyota's phrasing will say to you. But if you read very closely to see what its actually saying, it says "87 octane rating." It also says that Toyota will not tell you NOT to put higher octane ratings in the tank, that such fuels may produce unitemized benefits.

Consumer Reports considered the engine just adequate and the CVT slow to start moving but convenient in stop and go driving.

When I was in the UK last year I was treated to a 90 minute ride in a diesel powered Chrysler minivan to the airport. Never would have known it was a diesel except I was told.

What I said is that your engine (2000 model) is quite different than the

While I agree that the Avalon will run on 87 octane, the benefits of higher octane are not "unspecified." The benefits of premium (and to a lesser extent mid-grade) are better fuel economy and increased horsepower.

Dan Holdsworth wrote: || On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:22:33 -0400, Al || || was popularly supposed to have said: || ||| Your Imminence, ||| I didn't say I can't pay for premium. What I indicated was that, ||| with the cost of gas so high, I don't want to pay even more for ||| premium. There's a difference, you know. I feel I'm being ripped ||| off enough on regular these days without springing for premium. If ||| you like to overpay, go ahead. I don't. It's not a matter of ||| whether or not I can afford it. There are plenty of good cars that ||| run well on regular. || || Always entertaining to hear an American whinging about fuel prices. || || How'd you like to pay $6.40 per gallon (US) of fuel? That's what || we've ended up paying over here! || || At those sorts of prices, diesel-fueled Toyotas make a lot more || sense, and you'd be surprised how fast most of 'em are, too. ||

Diesel smells like S*IT.

|| -- || Dan Holdsworth PhD snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com || By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, By the beans of Java || do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking || becomes a warning, By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion

Don't ever visit the UK, the prices we pay, after you have recovered from a heart attack, the next thing you will do is locate a nice peaceable middle eastern oil producing country to "Liberate".

Currently we are paying the equivalent of $5.59 USD per US Gallon for regular.

And there isn't any likley hood of it coming down, infact more than likley, it will climb further.

The overvalued Euro. Don't worry, it will come down. Why should I spend big bucks on a VW when I can get more car for less money from the far East.

You believe CR? They don't know how to drive a vehicle with a CVT. LOL

mike hunt

Art wrote:

My parents have a Freestyle with the CVT. I like it very much. I don't understand the "slow to start moving" comment. The car moves very well. My only complaint is that it is plain looking (but then that applies to almost the entire Toyota product line). It has great room, good performance, is well put together, quiet, etc. A very nice car and a great bargin. My Father initally wanted a Highlander, but after driving both and comapring prices, the Highlander was a non-starter (less room for the driver, much more expensive, slower).

Ed

It won't come down much. Has been 80p+ a litre sincebefore last Xmas I reckon. Was a few blips about 3 months ago where it dropped to 76.9p a litre, but that went up steadily after about 2 weeks.

What automotive authority or review is giving higher grades to the Ford

The Avalon is indeed a fine car but then so is the 500, has a 6 speed automatic and it is at least $6,000 less expensive to buy. The poster was questioning the need for premium fuel for the Avalon. That is why I suggested he drive and price a 500 before he decides what to buy.. The 500 is not a mid size car, it is a full size car and the price difference alone will buy ALL of the fuel needed to run it for at least five years!

mike hunt

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote:

No, Toyota paid a law firm good money to write the octane paragraph used in the 2000 owners manual so as NOT to stick their neck out and commit to any such thing.

I have a logbook in my 2000 Avalon which includes every fuel purchase made since I bought the car new. Have about 10 tanks of 93 octane Shell and Texaco logged. Essentially a full tank, 13 to 15 gallons purchased, and one would have to know the previous tank was a 93 octane to see any difference in MPG. At most we're talking about the difference between

A friend whom I trust says his wife's 2000 Avalon will burn rubber easier with 93 octane than with 91 or 87.

Another friend whom I trust has 330k miles on his 1992 4x4 Toyota truck says it will burn rubber easier after towing a 3500 pound bass boat and trailer, but for only for 15 or 20 minutes after the trailer is unhitched. He thinks the ECU (not his foot) gets reprogrammed for power and takes a while to figure out the boat is no longer there. Considering he drives 2 hours per day in that truck I presume his foot is very well calibrated.

Both friends find same as I have, that more MPG can't be bought with higher octane ratings. While higher compression ratios should produce higher thermodynamic efficiency there are many other variables such as gasoline. There is no public ratings for engergy content of gasoline. No assurance your 93 octane rating has as much energy as 87 octane.

Purchase several tanks in a row of each. If you can't measure a difference then there isn't one. You do NOT get what you pay for. You only get what you SHOP for. If you are not willing to shop for it then you'll never get it.

Yes, you're right...if your engine doesn't have the compression to make use of the higher octane then you're wasting your money when you buy high octane fuel. Simple.

Remember though, if you do have a high compression engine then you NEED high octane fuel to prevent detonation and you'll realize a bit more power and better mileage.

It's not rocket science, just go by what the owners manual says, they know their engine best.

You facts don't agree with your conclusions. For cars that can adjust the timing based on octane (like the 6 cyl Toyota's) the benefits of premium with regard to fuel mileage are real and can be measured. If you only measured .5 MPG, then that is fine. I never gave any numbers, I just said that premium will yield better MPG with that engine. However, the effect is most pronounced during long driving intervals when the engine is running quite warm. Ambient temperature also counts (I often use a lower grade in Winter).

The increase in horsepower can also be measured. But how many people really can tell the difference between 210 and 200 hp? (These are example numbers).

If you don't care about the small increase in horsepower, or the relatively small increase in fuel mileage, then use regular or mid-grade. But the differences can be measured.

Toyota marketing is taking a hit by recommending premium gas, because many buyers see this as a negative in terms of cost of operation. There is no way they would completely make up something like that. If anything, they would do the opposite to make the car more cost effective.

Smaller? In what way? An Avalon has more hip and shoulder room, but less head and luggage room than a 500. The Avalon also costs $5000 more than the Ford 500. You get very little for that extra 5K. If you buy the Chrysler 300, you get an interesting looking car and you can get some power (if you are willing to pay). The Avalon is a typical Toyota - dull styling, old technology, put together well. If you want an over priced boring second rate vehicle it should be at the top of your list. The Ford is a much better value (although boring as well), and the Chrysler is much more interesting and a lot faster (with proper options). Unless you are a Toyota bigot, I can't see why you would consider an Avalon.

Ford 500

Front Head Room: 39.4 in. Front Hip Room: 54.2 in. Front Shoulder Room: 54.3 in. Rear Head Room: 38.6 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 57.6 in. Rear Hip Room: 54.1 in. Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 40.9 in. Luggage Capacity: 21 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 21 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5 Toyota Avalon

Front Head Room: 38.8 in. Front Hip Room: 55.8 in. Front Shoulder Room: 59.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.5 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 58.2 in. Rear Hip Room: 56.2 in. Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 40.9 in. Luggage Capacity: 14.4 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 14 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

Ed

"...you NEED high octane fuel to prevent detonation..."

You don't really mean that, do you?

...Allen

Hahahahaha. Good catch. Bet he does. :)