Engine rust during non-use (Synthetic oil versus conventional)

Well, after 12 days, I checked the stainless steel forks that were dipped in Mobil 1 Synthetic oil and dipped in conventional oil.

I left all utensils exposed to the open air in a warm, high-humidity environment, an indoor storage facility.

Despite my concerns, the metal dipped in Mobil 1 Synthetic still showed a residue of oil after all that time. All forks were positioned horizontally on a table, so the fork prongs pointed slightly upwards at an angle, since this is how forks are designed.

The residue on the Mobil 1 forks was greater/thicker at the horizontal base of the metal fork than on the upwardly angled prongs, which suggests the slickery Mobil 1 may have slid down the prongs. But there was still a small, thin amount of residue on the prongs.

A greater/thicker amount of oil was found on the forks that were dipped in conventional oil. The upwardly angled prongs of the forks dipped in dino oil showed a significantly thicker amount of oil residue after the 12 days, but once again both sets of forks (synthetic and conventional) showed residue on the upwardly angled prongs.

I used a clean, bare finger to test surfaces for residue. Residue showed up as a shiny streak on the finger, which indicated a positive result. Both types of oil were 5w-30.

After the observations were completed, I picked the forks up. An interesting thing about the synth forks is they each dripped two drops of Mobil 1 synthetic oil onto the floor after I picked them up, whereas the conventional oil forks did no dripping whatsoever.

By the way, gang, let's try to stay on-topic. We seem to be wavering again into politics. Why don't you all pick one political newsgroup and agree to post your messages there. That way you can still read each other's opinions if you all post to the same political newsgroup.

Yep, I'm definitely switching to Pennzoil Platinum from Mobil 1. I've been reading about troubling wear control issues with Mobil 1. It seems to grind up the iron, lead, and aluminum in your engine about as good or better than any other oil ;-)

And additives don't survive long in Mobil 1 (low TBN counts).

Time to switch. Glad I learned about this early on. Mobil 1 obviously is the Microsoft Windows of motor oils ;-)

Gimme some of that Linux: RLI Bio-Syn.

Unfortunately RLI's oil isn't sold around here, so I'll try Pennzoil first before possibly ordering RLI online (RenewableLube.com).

Very interesting thread from the M3 forum web site:

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HofmeisterK Before you read on, let me assure you that I have absolutely NO affiliation with any of the parties mentioned. I haven't even bought anything from any of them yet, nor are they even aware I am posting this. I have nothing whatsoever to gain from this except to see some acceptance for a product that I believe in, from a company I appreciate.

Let me also assure you that every single gripe and quip about this stuff has already been made and answered. If anything you read here - or the fact that the products are not yet widely used or BMW-approved - is a deal-breaker for you, please be respectful and move on.

Some of you may have heard of Renewable Lubricants, Inc. (a.k.a. RLI). If you haven't yet, you will. Long story short, they are a mom-and-pop operation making automotive lubricants from renewable resources on a farm in the middle of Ohio, and the stuff they make just might be the best ever seen.

Their claim to fame nowadays is that they are the only known company with an oil that works properly in US-market Audi RS4s. Those cars are apparently chewing up and spitting out flagship high-dollar street and racing oils from Mobil, Castrol, Red Line, Motul, Fuchs, Elf, and others, including ones that were officially approved by Audi/VW: None of them would run more than 3,000 miles in those engines without needing to be changed at the risk of severe engine wear. In the same cars, RLI's products have run well over 6k miles with no need to be changed. And this isn't someone's butt dyno talking, or some n00b looking at the oil on the end of the dipstick and saying "OMGZ IT'S STILL CLEAR!!!11" These results were validated by numerous oil analyses under the personal direction of Terry Dyson, perhaps the most respected freelance lubrication consultant in the industry.

I'll spare you the gritty details. If you want to read more, click here:

One of RLI's own favorite stories is one of a professional drag racing team (funny cars) that was using Kendall GT-1 Racing oil, one of the most respected and well-established racing oils on the market. Their engine had reached a point at which valvetrain components were actually welding themselves together over the course of each run down the track. They swapped out the Kendall for something from RLI and the problem went away.

The secret is in RLI's unique plant-based esters. Esters in general are great for oil because they stick to metals and form really strong films to prevent metal-to-metal contact, and withstand heat extremely well without losing performance or breaking down. That's a big part of why Red Line and some Motul oils are so great. The plant-based esters that RLI uses are even better in those respects than the synthetic ones used by the more commercial brands. But engine oil has to have a lot of ingredients to keep it working over thousands of miles, and the challenge with plant-based esters is that they don't usually play well with those ingredients. RLI solved that problem by engineering plant breeds such that the esters they produce are easier to work with.

I'm not going to try to tell you the big boys couldn't have figured this out if they wanted to. It's just that bio-based products aren't as profitable as petroleum products for people who don't need synthetic, nor are they easy to market to people who want high-end stuff because they're not "synthetic" (although these oils do contain a lot of synthetic components). But it works, and the results are extremely promising.

So, what does this mean for you?

The thread I linked to earlier gives the details, but the short version is this: RLI's engine oils lubricate and clean better than virtually everything else on the market, they don't leave deposits or coke up in turbos, and they actually PREVENT oil consumption, fuel dilution, and emissions by improving piston ring sealing. And most of all, they deserve your money because they are a small operation with great technology, and they're doing it all with renewable resources right here in the US.

It's pretty self explanatory: You should buy it.

Terry Dyson actually uses RLI oils in his own cars, and he personally oversaw the development of the specially tweaked blends that RLI produced for the RS4. Incidentally, that development process was financed *personally* by an RS4 owner who goes by RI_RS4 on various forums. So, if you come across him, you can drop him a line if you have questions.

RLI's engine oils come in a wide range of viscosities. When I spoke with Terry Dyson, he recommended the 10w-30 for my car and usage pattern (E36 M3, street-driven year-'round in PA). However, as a matter of course, I suspect that a lot of you would opt for the 5w-40, which is one of the blends specially tweaked for the RS4.

If you're interested, PM me or just post here. If there's sufficient interest, I will contact RLI to get something going. Maybe we could also get a deal going with Terry Dyson on discounted oil analyses so that our usage can contribute to the development of the products.

And of course, if anyone feels that people elsewhere on M3Forum should know about this, feel free to spread the word.

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RoodAwaken I'm putting in my M very soon. I truly think this stuff is the wave of the future. Any company that actually works with the requirements of enthusiasts deserves our support. And Mobil-1? A mere off-the-shelf oil with only a mediocre cost-to-benefit ratio. Oil analyses have shown that to be the case for years.

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RoodAwakening again:

Look...I have no stock in this company, whatsoever. I have no financial ties, I've never met the owner or any of its employees, and I don't receive one penny of the sales or commission.

The reason I'm encouraging people to try it is because scientifically-based oil analyses have shown great results. We're talking lower wear, lower emissions, improved fuel economy and--what a concept!--it puts American farmers to work to boot.

Keep in mind, too, that this is a "mom and pop" company with very limited resources. It doesn't have the bottomless bank accounts of companies like ExxonMobil and others whose products are largely hype. Ask anyone to name one synthetic oil and I'll bet 95% of the population would be able to tell you "Mobil-1." Is that because the stuff is the best? Hell, no. It's because we've been bombarded with Mobil-1 advertisements for the better part of 20 years. But test that same Mobil-1 oil and tribologists are finding no real benefits to using $4 to $5 a quart motor oil. Not only that, the experts are recommending consumers add Lube Control (see

to that same Mobil-1 to keep the oil's TBN high enough for extended use. And the RLI stuff? Oil analyses have found that no additional additives are needed. Far as I'm concerned, that's not an infomercial. That's a product that works.

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TheSt|g wrote:

I just want to assure you I know HofmeisterKinky(Justin) IRL and he is in no way affiliated with RLI or any other major car parts supplier. He is just someone who likes to do his research on various products and specs, torsional rigidity numbers come to mind.

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And f Guys, RLI is fantastic oil. I can attest to it, since I was the one who hired Terry Dyson as a professional consultant (not just to do oil analysis) to formulate the best oil possible for the RS4 engine. The performance of RLI BioSyn is nothing short of incredible. I would not hesitate to run this oil in any engine. It will outperform everything else on the market. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask me.

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And, of course, Terry Dyson of dysonAnalysis.com has this on his web site:

A GOOD IDEA FOR LOWER ENGINE WEAR

DysonAnalysis would like to share a product with those looking for superior performance and protection in motor oil. [Terry] recommends fluid from Renewable Lubricants, Incorporated. While DysonAnalysis sells only oil analysis reports and remains independent, recent test results have produced wonderful results in engines using their cutting-edge biobased lubricants.

Look at this used oil analysis from a Lexus using Mobil 1, Schaeffer's, and RLI's Bio-Syn. It's very telling:

http://theoildr RL BioSyn 10w30 (4,946) - 1999 Lexus GS400 (85,796)

I bought this car used with 58K miles. I drive about 300 miles per week but I make at least 6 trips a day that are less than 6 miles but do get the oil up to temperature at least once or twice per week. I did the AutoRX thing and after another oil change I started sending UOA to DysonAnalysis. The first UOA I sent was Mobil One 5w30 with OCI of 7,591 miles (shown in the first column). On Terry's advice I changed to a Fram air filter, tried a K&N oil filter, and also replaced the PCV valve. I used Schaeffers Supreme 7000 5w30 with an OCI of 5,002 miles (shown in the 2nd column) and got a little improvement??? but still had serious fuel dilution problems. On the latest OCI I used the RL BioSyn 10w30 with an OCI of 4,946 miles and an AmSoil EAO57 (I know that may not be quite the right name for that filter) and these results are in the third column. Fairly significant improvement in many areas. Terry said some of these results would create quite a bit of discussion....hey, I am just an oil moron and don't know the answers.

Mobil, Schaeffer, BioSyn

Iron 13,16,8 Copper 26,11,850 nope this is not a misprint Tin 0,0,0 Lead 53,38,15 very nice Chrom 1,0,0 Nickel 0,0,0 Alum 5,5,3 also good Titan 0,0,0 Silver 0,0,0 Calcium 1855,1759,3206 Magne 21,14,17 Zinc 832,1065,1939 not a misprint Phos 799,1146,1215 Bariu 6,8,0 Molyb 84,185,65 Antim 0,0,200 Silico 16,14,16 Sodiu 9,7,16 Boron 51,10,3 Potas 0,0,0 Vanad 0,0,0 V40C 57.6,47.5,63.8 V100C 9.0,8.3,11.1 TAN 1.25,2.60,3.82 Flash 335,285,335 Oxid 27,23,154 NIT 14,11,16 KF 572,433,579 TBN 1.9,1.3,2.6 Fuel 2.47,1.57,1.16 getting better SOOT 0,0,0 Glycol 0.2,0,0 vndx 134,150,168

I used the same oil and filter when I changed and plan to run another OCI of 5K. Terry has really worked with me to try and help me get this bad boy back to some kind of normal. He was very happy with the improvement and seems to expect more of the same.....especially if we can indentify the source of what he thinks is dirt getting in there from somewhere. =============

There are more posts in this interesting thread.