Fuel Line Replacement Help - will it last or should I get the fire extinguisher out?

Ugh.

I've had a grrrrreat weekend here. I noticed my wife's car (95 Toyota Camry) was leaking gasoline and found the source of the leak to be a rubber hose between two metal fuel lines, when I removed the hose the metal line leading up to the gas tank was so corroded that it snapped off. After browsing these forums, reading my Haynes manual

3109830 times, and a quick trip the local auto parts store I got the courage up to make the repair myself. I bought a length of metal brake line and after a lot of swearing and effort I got it up and around the gas tank to attach to the fuel pump. The car is up and running and better yet, my wife has no idea that I won't point I was thinking I had killed her car! At this point I am trying to evaluate if I need further work or if I can go back to football and beer next weekend....

Here are my concerns and worries:

  1. The factory installed metal fuel line I broke had some nifty flaring on the ends of the pipe, one was a little more than an inch in and seemed to be a "stop" or visual clue for how far the hose should over lap the pipe, the other flare was at the opening and I'm guessing was designed to help prevent leaks. The brake like I used to replace it had none of these nifty little bumps and flares..... are these huge preventative designed to the point that their absence should make me question the durability of my handiwork? My Haynes manual has a cut away picture of this type of piping with the two flares and has specific dimensions as to how much should over lap and where the clamp should be... the preciseness of their drawing and the impreciseness of what I actually did on the repair are making me worry. The guy at the auto shop telling me that I would be able to make the repair with the brake line he was selling me even without the flares made me a little nervous as well...
  2. In replacing this line I also reattached two sections of rubber hose, one up by the fuel pump and one down below where the original leak was. I'm relatively new to the auto motive do-it-yourself game, the biggest project I have tackled to date was replacing a set of rear struts, and I'm concerned (can you tell I like to worry?!?) that I didn't put the hoses on tight enough. Here is one test I was tinkering with, when I was playing with attaching the hose to a length of metal tubing, even with the clamp screwed on as tight as I could get it I could still pull on the rubber hosing and make it slowly slide off the metal tubing.... Should that have happened? I seem to recall thinking of hose clamps as something that should not be tightened as hard as possible or they will fail prematurely....? Yes? No? maybe so? On the same subject the clamps I removed were a sort of quick release Toyota clamp with no adjustment possible, can you reuse these clamps? It seems like over time the metal wouldn't grip as tightly as the day it rolled off the assembly line. Are the adjustable screw clamps better?
  3. How much should the hose be overlapped onto the metal piping? Toyota has the second flare/bump about an inch and a half on the pipe, but one of my connections I can only manage a one inch over lap, which leaves me a good half inch short of their "stop" bump.
  4. How much pressure am I dealing with in the fuel lines? Is it high enough to cause a rubber hose to fly off and gas to spew all over the place? Along the same thread, would some sort of pressure check on the fuel system give me an idea of how durable my repair will (or won't) be? Am I literally ( no pun intended) playing with fire here?
  5. And finally, I am considering going to the dealer and buying a replacement part for the metal tubing section since it would be bent correctly and it would have the proper flares already on it. My concern is that if I bought this replacement section that I would have to drop the gas tank to install this oddly bent section of pipe, does anyone have any experience here? The metal tubing I currently have on the car was a PAIN in the rear to work into the tight space. Anyone have any experience here?

Lastly, I heartfelt thank you to this forum for helping me get my car up and running at a point when things looked pretty darn bleak. Now I am hoping for a little bit more help and guidance.

Sincerely,

Blake18

Reply to
blake18
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I think you were working on the fuel vapor return line, not the supply line. If so, the hose should overlap about the same as the original one did.

I would not trust the advice of a parts counter guy at an auto parts store. That person may be knowledgeable, but chances are he or she is not.

If the clamp was just a spring clamp, the fuel line may have been the vapor return line, not the supply line. If the line was a return line, the spring clamp is fine. The supply side has uses threaded fittings to withstand the higher pressures.

See above.

The supply side can be 40 ~ 50 PSI.

Invest in a tubing bender to bend tubing, and practice a little first to bend without kinking.

Reply to
Ray O

Blake18,

You are justified in being concerned about a sudden fire.

As you mentioned, no amount of clamp tightening seems to prevent the rubber hose from slipping off the steel line. It is for this reason that the original equipment had a 'dimple' flaring.

A problem could occur when the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel in the line. If the rubber hose slips, the volume in the line is increased, and the pressure will build again, possibly allowing the hose to be pushed off. Then the spilling fuel could contact a spark or hot surface such as an exhaust component. The result could be ignition so rapid that you might not be able to exit the vehicle, even if it is already stopped.

There are alternatives, for example using a flaring tool (free loan at some parts stores such as Canadian Tire, Partsource) and steel line with mechanical fittings - similar to brake line fittings except larger diameter. There may be other possible fixes.

Don't take a chance on getting hurt.

Good luck with this,

- Jack

Reply to
Ralph

Ray O -

Thank you for the lightning fast reply!

I would say the line was definately the return/vapor line as I saw the other line coming off the fuel pump with the threaded fitting and I was not working on that one. One reservation I have is that when I originally broke the line pulling the hose off it leak/spewed fuel at a good rate, was this some sort of syhpon/suction action causing fuel to come out the vapor/return line? I know gasoline vapors are extremely explosive, if not more dangerous than gasoline itself so I will presume I ain't out of the woods just because this line isn't the high pressure line that actually carries the fuel? Yes? No? Maybe so?

After reading a few of the replies to my post I am planning on revisiting my repair this weekend (bye bye beer and football!), which leads me to some follow up questions (woohooo!)

What is the general opinion on buying metal piping, adding a little flare at the opening and bending it to fit versus throwing money into the coffers of Toyota for the exact precise piece they used when it was originally manfactured?

Any tricks or tips to getting hose onto the tubing? I added a little bit of oil to lube up the hoses but the connections where I have less the original overlapage (is that a word?!) it was because I couldn't get the bloody thing on any farther, on one connection this was was because of cramped space and the fact the tube I was connecting onto is slightly flexilble and moves as I push it, tips tricks ideas ?

I am getting some conflicting information on whether or not I should expect the hose to slip on the tube when I give it a good tug even when I tighten the screw clamp down like mad. I'm thinking maybe this is because some people think I might be working on the pressurized fuel line, which it now appears that I am not. If the spring clamps were put on there orginally (like the PCV valve and hoses) I am pretty sure I could pull those off without removing the clamp so I am starting to come to the conclusion that the tightness between the hose and tube connection is not meant to be so strong that it is immovable with the clamp on?

Thanks again to those who took a moment out of their day to make mine a little better!

Blake

Reply to
blake18

You're welcome, although you should not mention lightning and fuel lines in the same sentence ;-)

I do not know the source of the fuel in the vapor return line, but I do not think there should be much, if any liquid in the lines. You may want to check the charcoal canister to make sure it is not saturated and full of liquid fuel. As long as there are no external leaks, there is not much chance of a fire from the return line.

I would not have a problem bending the vapor return lines because they are not under much pressure. I would only use the pre-made factory lines for the supply line.

You can try warming the hose with an incandescent drop light before slipping it on to the tubing. For obvious reasons, do not use a heat gun or open flame to warm up the hose!

If the factory used a spring clamp then it is definitely not a pressurized supply line, so as long as the spring clamp is squeezing the hose, and the hose is not leaking, then it is tight enough.

Reply to
Ray O

I'm going to top post to avoid the lengthy discussion below.

When we replaced the tank in my Supra, the fittings were so tight/rusted we had to cut them. I was running around looking for compression fittings, flares, etc, then I got the bright idea...it's a Toyota, how many different fittings can Toyota have?!

To my delight, not many. I took the old fitting with me (after we cut it, we finally separated it with a clamp and a wrench) and brought it to a parts store.

The fuel line from a '91 Camry had the same fittings, and was in 2 pieces, so we had two of each fitting in case we f@cked something up. My 'assistant' was an ASE certified GM tech, so I guess he knew what he was doing! ;)

He also had a flare nut tool. It fits inside the tubing, you tighten it and it makes a flare (it looks like a bead)inside the tubing that will hold a clamp. I spent a few extra $$$ and got GOOD clamps made for fuel lines; we spliced the new hose and fitting into the piece we cut from the fuel pump, and attached it with 100PSI fuel line (reinforced rubber). We got the two metal pipes right up against each other and ran the fuel line over them and clamped it. We used 3" of fuel line to cover a very small gap.

It has held up well. I drove the car all summer without a single leak.

Reply to
Hachiroku

I repaired the fuel line on an old tocoma rust bucket. I bought the replacement line from toyota, very expensive but bent to fit. I could not snake the line into position without removing other components so I cut the line in two and was able to get it into position. I used rubber fuel line and clamps to reconnect the fuel line. Worked fine for about a year and then the brake lines rusted out. I donated the truck....

Steve

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