Gas Prices making a dent ... finally!

I can't, but that's not the point. Any time another country suggests tarriffs on our products, it's all over the news and politicians & the affected manufacturers begin foaming at the mouth. You've seen this.

Sure, it sucks, but in the set of all possible trading partners, of course you will see some countries employ "protectionist" measures. If GM is losing money because Toyota had the vision to see that gas guzzlers would go the way of the dinosaur, why should the government aid GM in recovering? The company needs restructuring badly, and keeping it afloat rather than letting an Iacocca take it over and turn it around is bad for business, and bad for America. Therefore, those who favor tariffs as corporate welfare are freedom-hating people.

That last sentence is true, but for strange reasons. I'll state it another way: All businesses are subject to competition, and deserve to float or sink based on whether they do the right things or not. If a lawn chair manufacturer built garbage and finally went out of business, nobody would raise an eyebrow. It's the normal course of events.

But, automobiles occupy a special place in the American psyche, for reasons I'll never understand. So, for quite a few years, the big 3 built vehicles of hideous quality. Some have now reached levels between "better" and "decent". But, between (roughly) 1970 and 1990, millions of people continued to buy garbage from the big 3. Why? Can you think of any other product people would continue buying, knowing it was trash and that the manufacturers were laughing all the way to the bank?

There were the obvious reasons, like my fathers: "The Japs tried multiple times to shoot my plane out of the sky over the Pacific in WWII. I'd never buy a Jap car". (He was OK with buying me Japanese cameras and electronics when I was a kid, though). This doesn't completely explain the brand loyalty, though. I'm too busy to speculate further, but it's very weird.

There was a point when Van Heusen began making really gnarly dress shirts, so I switched to Lands' End. I did the same with cars. Other people don't.

I see your point about blind patriotism and consumer purchasing, but WWII veterans are dying at an astonishing rate every day. The hatred of Japanese cars is dying with it. The 80s was riddled with hatred for all things Japanese, as their quality symbolized a demise in the U.S. automobile industry. Quality increased somewhat at that time, so people bought American again. Now, the quality factor, not to mention the MPG factor, is displacing that "patriotism" of consumer purchasing. People already forget the 80s and the Jap threat that materialized. Also, Jap companies employ U.S. workers and help boost the U.S. economy anyway. So, there's little reason for most educated (and even non-educated) people to avoid purchasing them anymore. This blind patriotism is a dying breed. In a way, it's a good thing, because the free market works best when gov't isn't involved in bailing out organizations and consumers choose based on value (not to mention meddling in our personal affairs). It helps promote the concept that vehicles will continue to improve in their longevity and endurance.

One is entitled to their own opinion and to spend their money wherever they wish. ;)

mike hunt

Re: Gas Prices making a dent ... finally!

Group: alt.autos.toyota Date: Tue, Oct 4, 2005, 3:24pm From: snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com (Mike Hunter) Now that Toyota is selling car by the millions, rather than the hundreds of thousands, more of their bad one are showing up as well. Get real how about all of the V6 engines with the 'gelling;' problem........

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Actually I think gelling was more prevalent in the 4 cyls.

----------------------------------------------- ..... or the blown head gaskets on Toyotas? Does that mean all Toyotas are junk, I don't think so.. Every manufacture makes good vehicles today and yes some are not up to par even Toyotas mike hunt

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I'd have better luck trying to convince a discussion group full of GM owners that Toyota is superior to GM than you do trying to convince this DB that GM is on 'par' with Toyo...

My 95 Chev. Blazer was not unlike the above posters suburban (one problem after another). My pontiac GP was the same way.

I (also) would never, never , ever buy another GM. That is the only way I can ever get justice from a company that ripped me off and could care less of my opinion 'after' they cashed my check..

I hope they go out of business sooner than later.

CP

Isn't envy one of the deadly sins?

mike hunt

Not if the government intervenes like they have lately and force people not to fill up their gas guzzlers due to war rationing. :) There may also be random mobs to beat people up filling up more than say 10 gallons at a time, and the government may conveniently look the other way (like it does with immigration)

Mike Hunter wrote:

Do you actually believe Toyota or any of the other import brands will still assemble there vehicles in the US if there were no domestic cooperators? LOL

mike hunt

You forgot to say in my opinion, since more Americans believe domestics are as good or better than anything Toyota has to offer. On can not argue with the sales figures. Buy what ever you choose, but the fact remains GM sells three times as many vehicles in the US as does Toyota and Ford sells more than twice as many as Toyota. Contrary what many in the NG want to believe GM is not loosing money even though they did in one quarter.

mike hunt

Do you need an explanation of why sheer sales numbers are meaningless without further information?

And, do you know what it means to "audit a college course"? You might want to consider auditing a statistics course at a nearby college. It'll probably cost you nothing to do so.

What is a "domestic cooperator"?

Where do you get those assumptions? There is little discernable difference in the build quality and longevity among the vehicles offer for sale by all of the manufactures today. As to fuel economy GM offers more vehicles that get MPG figures equal or better than to anything sold by Toyota and they are doing it with engines that are not underpowered. Do a little research rather than expressing an uninformed opinion, WBMA

mike hunt

Consumer Reports continues to find more defects in the American cars they test. It's improved over the past 15 years, but there's still a wide margin. It's significant because most of what they find involves fit and finish. They can't see the hidden things that pop up 2-3 years later.

Fat chance that there will be rationing with the Republicans in power. The commodities buyers, in a free market, determine the price of crude. If demand exceeds the supply the higher price will discourage unnecessary consumption. Those that can not afford the fuel will drive less. Those that can afford to buy the fuel they need will buy what they need.

mike hunt

No further information is needed when one is comparing similar sized and equipped vehicles that are available to buyers and brand A and B sell more than C and D. The conclusion as to why is obvious ;)

mike hunt

I not going to argue your opinion, you can believe what you wish, but I suggest you ask for more detail and expand your search criteria LOL

mike hunt

Well....it's on the printed page right in front of me when I read the magazine, and I'm pretty sure I'm not hallucinating. In addition, they conduct owner surveys which reveal how people feel about their cars a few years later.

Can you say the same thing if vigilante groups go around beating people up for filling up their tanks? Enforcing these people will prove a fruitless venture. Whenever a communal asset is overused by a few, people take it amongst themselves to do something about it, regardless of the potential criminal outcome.

Umm....no. Wasn't it you who, in another message, said that the number of potential buyers had increased over the years, and that even though GM's percentage share was smaller than in the past, they were selling more cars than Toyota?

Do you see how meaningless that is? Yes, or no?