Gas Prices making a dent ... finally!

You've made this claim before and never offered a reference to back it. Do so.

You've made this claim before. Do a bumper-to-bumber comparison for us. What GM or Ford vehicle do you think is equivalent to or better than a 154hp Camry LE and still gets equal or better gas mileage?

Here, I'll do one for you... In spite of the price difference (the 154hp Camry LE is considerably cheaper, at least before the givebacks GM finds necessary to move Buicks), you could compare the Buick LaCrosse (one of GM's most recent introductions, so we'd expect it to be technologically sophisticated) and the Camry LE. The Camry's 9 in or so shorter and a little narrower (i.e., fits into my garage more readily) but has more luggage room and most interior dimensions are very, very close. The features list is similar, too, but the edge goes to the Buick for having "wood trim" in several places (yippee). The Camry is rated at 24/34 for mileage and the LaCrosse is rated at 20/29 mpg.

You've also disparaged the performance of 4-cylinder Camrys before. The good people at

project that, yes, the V6 LaCrosse will beat the I4 Camry in the quarter mile by 16.80 to 17.75 seconds (I added 150 lbs for the drivers). Not a terribly impressive victory (I'll take the gas savings, thank you). I'd bet you'd find that the LaCrosse doesn't actually have a one-second lead over the Camry, either, since the Toyota uses a DOHC VVTi motor (in my experience, VVTi engines give much better low-end torque) while the Buick has an 3.8L OHV engine without any tricks.

By the way, good luck parking that Buick. GM thoughtfully engineered a turning in a turning circle of 40.4 feet vs 34.8 for the Camry.

Of course, if you do value performance over fuel mileage, the 3.3L V6 Camry SE is still list-priced less than the LaCrosse and has 210HP on tap in a

3450 lb package, getting 21/29mpg (slightly better than the LaCrosse). It is projected to quarter mile .35 sec faster than the Buick but I'd be very suprised the margin if wasn't actually larger (the Toyota 3.3L V6 is also a VVTi/DOHC engine).

Got a trailer? Consider buying a Camry, which tows 2000 lbs, as opposed to the Buick's 1000 lbs.

Sources:

Don't listen to "Mike Hunt(er)". He has thrown around this claim and other pro-domestic claims time and time again, and yet has offered no solid evidence to back them up. He's just a troll, and an illiterate one at that. "Manufactures"... LOFL!!!

I love the bit about how a smaller percentage of a higher number is evidence of something (?), even if the actual number of cars ends up being larger.

Yes. People who subscribe. You're an expert statistician. Explain the effect of this fact on the survey results.

You mean they survey the FEW thousand people who happen to subscribe to their magazine, you need to expand your search criteria to get the true picture. An average of nearly 17,000,000 new vehicles have been sold annually in the US over the past ten years. I for one buy a lot of new cars and I have not had ONE that was problematic in years, foreign or domestic In my former business we serviced thousands of vehicles from all brands monthly in our shops and we saw little difference in the failure rate among brands. In my opinion the average new car buyer would do better to look at the cost of repairs among brands rather than any perceived frequency difference in the need for repairs

mike hunt

GM has ALWAYS sold more vehicles than Toyota. GM today sells more trucks alone in the US than Toyota sells cars and trucks combined. At one point GM sold nearly 50% of all the vehicles sold in the US. They now sell around

32% but that is a greater number in a 17,000,000 market than 50% was in a 9,000,000 market. Toyota sells a bit over 10% of the market

mike hunt

Why do you buy a lot of new cars? How often? What kind?

These figures are in no way indicative of quality. You know that.

Better do a bit more research. Government can not control the market, period. Carter tried that by controlling the distribution of gasoline and stations ran out of gasoline. It was not until Reagan let market forces decided did the supply return, albeit at higher price. Rationing will only result in even higher prices, or worse, it will lower the amount of available gasoline. If gasoline can not be sold at a profit it will just be burned off at the refinery so that the profitable distillates can be refined and sold. After all gasoline is a byproduct of the refining process. Economics 101

mike hunt

I could not care less where one chooses to spend their money. My point is, buying a particular brand any brand, at a premium price thinking it will not break down is foolish. They ALL break down at some point. In our business we serviced thousands of vehicles and kept meticulous records over the years. No matter how one feels about the brand they prefer, the fact is there is little difference in the failure rate among brands and we had the records to prove that fact. What should be more important to the owner is the cost of maintenance and repairs over time, if they are not the average new vehicle buyer who replaces his vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30K to 45K on the clock. Would you rather spend $500 to replace a power steering pump on a Caddy or one on a Lexus for $1,500? Better yet price an engine or tranny for both. A four cylinder Honda engine cost nearly as much as a Detroit V8. One reason one sees plenty of old domestics sedans at car shows and few if any Japanese cars is the cost and availability of parts to keep them on the road over time.

mike hunt

"High Tech Misfit" wrote in message news:17fvvwbkl074b$. snipped-for-privacy@hightech.misfit...

If I said I was going to shoot at you with 50% of the bullets in a six shot

38 revolver or 30% of the 20 shot clip in a Klock would it mean something to you? LOL

mike hunt

Are you referring to the cost of only the pump itself, or is labor included in those numbers?

Maybe you'd better sign up for lessons on how to use your newsreader.

If your business was the service business, then you're in a poor situation to judge. From your perspective, the failure rate is going to be 100%; everything that comes in is broken.

I haven't had to get any Toyota repairs, yet (approaching 6 Toyota-years, now), but I was favorably impressed with the price of Volvo parts and service; it was less per hour than the Chevy or Ford dealer and the parts were comparable (recollection from the 1990s, I stopped owning Fords and Chevys before 2000).

Gas coupons become a viable alternative to make sure that everyone only gets X gallons of gas/week. Gasoline will still be sold at a profit, but the distribution will be even and no one, even gas guzzlers will get over their allotment. Those owners will just have to take shorter trips.

"Mike Hunter"

Mike, you need to get out of this Toyota group here and go to the GMC newsgroup so you can be pacified. I'm sorry, but your arguments do not stack up. It is ok if you are one of the patriotics that have to buy American. We here in this newsgroup would like to talk about our Toyotas, and how long we must go before the next oil change. Good luck promoting the GM way of life.