GM's Butt buddies

GM's top brass confirmed Wagoneers position by assuring stockholders that "Rick ain't a dick" when it comes to managing GM's losses. The same boneheads keep giving him a raise. An old man's cluster f*ck of old farts and assholes who keep their jobs by voting themselves a pay raise. I thought Kerkorian was smarter than these clowns. They just keep pulling the condom over his head. A good jap or china man running GM would shake the shit out of these old farts!

Reply to
Wagonwheel
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GM will be DEAD and BURIED before xmas 2006 - to be ressurected as a division of Honda in 2007 albeit MUCH smaller and non-union.

Should be fun!

Reply to
Saint Electrolux 59

I would think that GM has the resources to buy Honda. Hmm 51% of GMAC, remaining 49%... Of course they should buy Honda and let their management run the show. Give all of the GM managers early outs.

Reply to
Charles

I don't think so: GM market cap is $11B, HMC market cap is $59B. The market has spoken...

Dale Worley

Reply to
Dale Worley

It would be more likely that Honda would buy GM instead of GM buying Honda. Please remember the situation involving Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz.

However, I doubt that Honda would want the problems connected to taking over a company that has the debt burden (eg paying for the retirement and related health care costs of thousands of GM employees) if GM. Jason

Reply to
Jason

While I have no desire to take sides in this discussion, I have to take exception with your comment Dale. You can't buy diddley with "market cap". You need cash! ;-)

Reply to
Cool Jet

I recall something about Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Company even had a better cap than GM, something like $17-18B.

Harley buys GM? Wouldn't count on it.

B~

Reply to
B. Peg

...unless the government made a deal to accept some of the debt themselves so that Honda's buyout at least kept some of the debt and kept people working (and tax-payers). Interesting idea!

Reply to
jcr

Great point. However, I doubt that Honda or any other foreign car company would want all of the problems connected with owning and running GM. It's my guess that the owners of Mercedes now reqret taking over Chrysler. I read one article in a car magazine indicating that the automotive engineers from Mercedes gave up on trying to fix the design problems related to some of the engines that were used in Chrysler vehicles. They solved the problem by placing Mercedes engines in those vehicles. Jason

Reply to
Jason

I read the opposite, it's Chrysler engines in the Mercedes and Mercedes transmissions and outward in the RWD Chryslers.

To be specific he Chrysler hemi V8 and 3.5L V6 are used by Mercedes.

With the FWD Chrysler Caliber and the Mercedes B-200 they obviously use the same complete drive train, tuned up a bit for the market each is in. The 4 cyl engine and CV transmission have design involvement by a number of other companies.

Reply to
Spam Hater

I no longer have the magazine that had the article in it. I was referring to the first one or two years after Mercedes took over the company. You must have read a more recent article. It's my guess that the automotive engineers from Mercedes have already made all of the needed design changes in the Chrysler motors and transmissions (and related parts). Jason

Reply to
Jason

In article

, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:>

The Chrysler 3.5L V6 and 2.7L V6 were designed and built before Mercedes. FYI engines are Chryslers strongest point, they just go on and on. An example is the 3.3L V6 that Chrysler has been using since the early

90s. It just runs forever very efficiently, as did Chrysler engines in the past such as their great slant 6 that was used for many years. Mercedes has V6 engines, but I believe they are cut down versions of their V8s, so are 90° banks instead of the better Chrysler 60° V6s.

I did have two of the first Chrysler FWD cars and the engine wasn't that great, but it was a VW engine. That VW engine was the subject of a class action suit by VW owners. The Chrysler replacement for the VW engine was better in all respects.

Mercedes appears to have first had a positive influence on Chrysler's assembly quality. We have seen this in our own Chrysler car from 2001 and those we have rented since.

Mercedes design influence seems to start in the 300, including the inferior cruise control stalk and power locking; too bad they didn't adopt what I feel is Chryslers better designs there. As for transmissions Mercedes excels. The Chrysler Hemi V8 required a RWD drive train, which was a good fit for Mercedes. The bottom line of this part sharing was surely to lower Mercedes costs, by taking advantage of Chrysler's higher volume.

The recent Chrysler Caliber is an example of Mercedes and two other companies contributing their best talent to a new engine. Chrysler, Mercedes, Hyundai and Mitsubishi are said to have jointly designed the engine and will manufacture it in jointly run plants. There is a new plant in Detroit for final manufacturing of the new 4 cyl "world" engines used in the Caliber. The Mercedes B-200 cousin obviously uses the same engine, probably with slightly different tuning. I'm wondering where Mercedes assembles the B-200? I suspect Europe for now, although if it sells well in the USA I'm sure the Mercedes Alabama plant will also produce it. The B-200 is better finished than the Caliber, but at about twice the price here in Canada and unfortunately for the Mercedes image looks too much like the Toyota Matrix.

You don't need to buy books on this subject, just Google Mopar and Alpar, etc. I notice the sites I've mentioned below are occasionally updated. Better than books! Here are starting points:

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-A 4 company engine, with joint manufacturing. However reading several sources is a recommendation. This blog I read seems to me to have errors on Chrysler's recent products, yet is dated April 2006?
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Reply to
Spam Hater

Hello, Thanks for your post. You provided some info. that was not in the article that I read. Based on your excellent knowledge of what happened related to Chrysler/Mercedes--Do you believe that a Honda Inc. or Toyota Inc. would even consider taking over GM? It's my opinion that they would not do it. I also believe that Mercedes Inc. would NOT take over Chrysler if they had it to do all over again. Jason

Reply to
Jason

I didn't post the information about the Chrysler/Mercedes products, but I thought I'd post my opinions on whether Honda or Toyota would consider taking over GM and whether Mercedes would work with Chrysler if they had to do it all over again.

Honda has little, if any experience in joint ventures and ownership/partnerships with other automakers. I doubt if they would (or could) take over GM.

Toyota has pretty extensive experience in joint ventures and with ownership/partnerships with other automakers. Toyota's leaders are very astute politically and are very aware of the uproar that would be caused in the U.S. if they attempted to take over GM. One of Toyota's executives was criticized for saying that Toyota would raise its prices to help GM by giving GM some breathing room, and IMHO, that was a testing of the waters. Toyota executives always rehearse what they are going to say to the media and are not known for making mistakes.

What I see as a more likely scenario is Toyota taking over some of GM or Ford's excess production capacity in the next 3 or 4 years.

Reply to
Ray O

GM and Ford are closing mostly their older plants that are not equipped to build the newer more flexible chassis. Nobody would want them

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You may be correct--only time will tell. Perhaps various foreign car companies such as Honda, Toyota and Mazda might divide up the best selling GM vehicles such as their full sized pick-up trucks: full sized SUVs and best selling cars such as the Corvette. They could build those vehicles in their own factories. You may be on to something--only time will tell. GM only has enough money to last for three years (according to the May 2006 issue of Motor Trend magazine). Of course, if they sell more vehicles than last year--they may be able to hang on for more than three years. Jason

Reply to
Jason

Actually, I was thinking more in terms of the real estate where the plants are located and the available workforce. You and I agree that nobody would want an obsolete production line.

Reply to
Ray O

First and foremost, Toyota is a moneymaking machine with an eye on the future, and every move it makes is calculated and planned somewhere from 5 to 30 years in advance. I suspect that Honda's management thinks much in the same way.

Honda, Toyota, and Mazda would never acquire GM's designs or build a GM vehicle in their own factories. Honda and Toyota are already producing vehicles at their respective capacities. That means that they are selling everything they can make of their own designs so there is no compelling business reason to acquire someone else's designs. Toyota and Honda are expanding production capacity, that is why I thought that they may purchase some of GM's or Ford's plants - so they have locations for additional capacity.

The other company that has the financial wherewithal to acquire bits and pieces of GM is Hyundai, and although Hyundai is unlikely to acquire GM, they are more likely than a Japanese automaker.

Mazda is already aligned with Ford, which is in better shape than GM with what is in my opinion a better vehicle lineup so I think it is unlikely that Mazda would suddenly want to align itself with GM. Also, Mazda does not have the financial resources of Toyota, Nissan, or Honda and I doubt it is in a position to acquire another company or even a part of another company.

IMO, this is all a moot point because I believe that GM will weather the storm and emerge from their current troubles as a more business-savvy organization, leaner and more profitable, with different management, and #2 in global sales behind Toyota.

Reply to
Ray O

Ray, That might have worked if they had done it about 5 years ago. However, since GM will be out of money in about 3 years--it is probably too late. It's my guess that the CEO of GM will attempt to solve the problem by closing lots of factories in America--due to the union wages of American workers. In addition, the CEO will stop producing their lowest selling models. They may also sell the designs of some of their vehicles (and the rights to produce those vehicles) to foreign auto companies such as Hyundai. If Honda or Toyota purchases those rights, they would have to build new factories. Jason

Reply to
Jason

Nor will many want to buy an old polluted piece of real estate. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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