Is the 5,000-mile Internval applicable to me

I have a 2004 Toyota Matrix. The scheduled maintenance guide says that one should follow the 5,000-mile interval if one takes "Repeated trips of less than 5 miles in temperatures below freezing". A majority of my trips are below 5 miles, but the temprature is well above freezing. Can I conclude that the 5,000-mile internval does not apply to me?

Reply to
morpheus777
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A lot of things happen to a car that is driven infrequently or for short drives.

One thing is the oil has a tendancy to acidify. Actually, this happens whether you're driving 5 miles or 500 miles at a time.

The combustion process creates water. On drives over 5 miles, the exhaust system gets good and hot, so any water in the system is evaporated and expelled as steam. On drives under 5 miles, the exhaust system doesn't get hot enough to dissipate the steam, and the water stays in the exhaust and rots it out. Good thing Toyota has a Lifetime Warranty on their replacement exhausts...my Mom is on her thrid on on her Camry, and it only has 85,000 miles on it. The first one, she paid for, the other two havs been freebies, because she only drives 5-7 miles at a time.

Also, anitfreeze doesn't fully get up to temp. Antifreeze kind of 'cleans' itself at temp, this isn't happening if it isn't getting hot enough.

I would stick to the rule of thumb...3,000 miles for oil, 24 months or

24,000 miles on antifreeze, and the same for ATF if you have an automatic.
Reply to
Hachiroku

Sort of yes and no. I mean, it obviously wouldn't hurt to have oil changes MORE often, but I wouldn't obsess about it. Per my mechanic: "You wanna go

6-7 thousand - fine. If you're planning to forget for 10,000 miles, bad idea". Reason: It's a good idea for the underside of any car to be looked at with a bright light on a regular basis. The most likely time this will happen is during oil changes. Of course, this assumes you are taking the vehicle to a real mechanic, not the instant oil change places where they simply don't take the time to look a car over, and often hire people who have zero mechanical experience.
Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Us a synthetic oil and the 5000 mile interval will not apply to you. At the very least, use a synthetic blend oil.

Reply to
Mark A

You can NEVER change you oil too often. Oil changes are cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the cost of a premature engine failure.

Reply to
sharx35

One of the few times I completely agree with you!

Reply to
Hachiroku

This is a new one. How does antifreeze cleans itself ? Never heard of that. Not saying it isn't true but....

with 5 miles or less I would definitely stick to the 3000 mile oil change.

Reply to
RT

I have never heard of antifreeze cleaning itself either...

Reply to
Ray O

It tends to rid itself of contaminents better at full temp.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Coolant?

Where do the contaminants go?

Reply to
B A R R Y

Instead of being allowed to fester in a closed system, they have a tendancy to blow out of the overflow bottle as a gas. We're not talking rust here...

Reply to
Hachiroku

Thanks, I never realized that.

Reply to
B A R R Y

How much did you pay for your car? You don't need to answer, my point being that oil changes every 3K is cheap insurance. Never knew anybody that every had an oil related problem that changed their oil every 3-4k. I do it every 3K, which means by the time I get around to it, it's more like

3500-4500. Also realize that by definition, most cars, especially cars used for commuters, Soccer Mom's etc. fall into the shorter time interval for changing oil. Waiting 7500 to change your oil will almost certainly mean you will forgot once in a while and go way over. Not worth the risk, no matter what the Mfg says.
Reply to
ToMh

We agree on oil changes, if nothing else.

>
Reply to
sharx35

Yes....liberals are not always wrong....except in their politics....

Reply to
Scott in Florida

soccer moms maybe, but the average commute for working people is over

30 minutes these days. I would think that's more than enough to burn off any moisture or what have you in the oil.

I never forget oil changes. I make an estimate when the next one is due and I am usually pretty close to when it is needed.

Reply to
RT

Do you have longer trips interspersed among the short trips?

You need to get the engine hot in order for the water in the oil to burn off. The water accumulates much more in cold weather, hence the "temperature below freezing" caveat. Even in non-cold weather, if you never take any longer trips, and never get the engine up to the normal operating temperature, then you should opt for the 5000 mile interval.

As with all newer vehicles, 3000 mile oil changes have no benefit, and are a waste of money, besides being bad for the environment.

If you're unsure, do the 5000 mile interval. This is what most mechanics recommend these days. No one does 3000 mile changes anymore.

Reply to
SMS

longer trips interspersed among the short trips?

I'm sure you're right about 5K being sufficient, but every mechanic, every dealership and every lube place, I've ever used recommends 3K oil changes. I've used 3 different Toyota dealerships, and every one puts you on a 3K schedule. Not one follows the Mfg recommendation. Probably more because they want to see you more often, but I have yet to find any place that changes oil recommend anything other than the 3k interval.

Reply to
ToMh

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I noticed that for many recent US models, Toyota is going to a 5000 mile oil change interval across the board (no normal / severe service split). This certainly should make it clear for most owners of newer Toyotas. You might consider this when deciding on the correct oil change interval for your older Toyota. My SO's new RAV4 has an oil change reminder light - a very good idea.

For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change sort of guy. In my heart I know this is excessive but it is hard to break old habits. The 3000 mile change recommendation has been around since the 50's. BUT - today oil is better, fuel injection systems have greatly reduced rich fuel mixtures that could wash down the cylinder walls and contaminate the oil, good PCV systems reduce the contamination of the crankcase and help remove water, better air filters have reduced oil contamination, better cooling systems have resulted in more consistent engine temperatures, etc., etc. On the other hand modern engines typically run at higher temperatures(to reduce hydrocarbon emissions), rev higher, and run at higher peak cylinder pressures. These factors mostly increase the stress on the oil. However, when all factors are taken together, oil should last much longer than it did even 30 years ago. Vehicle manufacturers know this. Outside the US, oil change intervals are typically much longer (in Europe gasoline powered Toyota models have 10,000 mile oil change intervals). If you think things through, you may conclude that a 5000 mile oil change interval is conservative (at least for well designed engines). You should also consider the alleged Toyota sludge problems. If you do decide to go with the 7500 mile normal service oil change intervals, you may be accused of abusing your car in the unlikely event you have a sludge problem. I would not go past 7500 mile under any circumstances so as to avoid any potential warranty issues. It is my opinion that for the sort of driving you described, the 5000 mile change interval is conservative (assuming you are using quality oil and a decent filter).

People recommending shorter intervals, like 3000 miles, fall into several categories - 1) people who change it that often because Daddy did it that way; 2) people who believe that constantly changing the oil will make the engine last much longer; 3) people who profit from the oil change industry. The oil change indicators being installed on many new cars are a great idea. Some are simple mileage counters that remind you to change your oil at regular intervals (the Toyota system is like this). Other actually alter the change interval based on driving patterns (GM's system and some Fords). There have been attempts to design systems that actually measure the quality of the oil (Daimler has been working on this), but as far as I know none of these systems are in use in the US. I owned one car, a Saturn, with the GM system. According to the owner's guide the maximum interval was

7500 miles. The system would reduce the interval based on a number of factors. I had a hard time waiting for the system to indicated I needed to change the oil. I never actually waited until the light came on. The most I did was 7000 miles. When I did change the oil, I collected a sample and sent it to Blackstone Labs for analysis. Blackstone said not only was the oil in good shape, it was good for at least another 3000 miles. I currently own a Nissan Frontier V-6. It has a 5000 mile normal service oil change interval. For the first couple of changes I stuck with a 3000 mile interval. However, I recently let the oil go to 5000 miles and collected a sample for analysis. As for the Saturn, the analysis confirmed that the oil was in excellent condition and I could have stretched the oil change out for many thousand of additional miles. The only thing that makes me nervous about stretching out the Frontier's oil change interval is the tiny size of the oil filter. The element in the filter is only about half the size of the element in the Saturn. I worry that the filter will load up with contamination and go into bypass mode if I tried to stretch out the change interval. My SO's RAV4 also has a tiny oil filter. My Sister has a 1997 Honda Civic. It has an odometer driven oil change reminder (7500 mile intervals). The oil has only been changed when the indicator turned "red". The engine runs great. The rest of the car is crap. Likely the car will end up in the junk yard with a good engine (like many cars). My SO's old car was a Chrysler mini van with the horrible 3.0L Mitsubishi V-6. Despite sporadic oil changes, the car was towed to the junk car with a functioning engine and 200,000 miles on the odometer. If she had changed the oil every 3000 miles instead of every 7k to 9k, the only difference would have been more money spent on oil changes.

I can't see where changing the oil every 5000 miles or less will hurt anything other than your wallet, but I don't think it will do you much good either, even it you plan to drive the car 200k miles. And if you take your car to a quick change place, I think the fewer visits the better! If your Toyota manual allows for 7500 mile oil changes, I definitely would not worry about getting an oil change until you were at the 5000 mile mark. I'd say as soon as you approach 5000 miles, plan on getting it changed at the next convenient time. If you only drive 12k to 13k miles a years, I'd say have the oil change twice a year - maybe in December and June.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

They are doing this to eliminate confusion, not because normal service suddenly required shorter intervals.

Reply to
SMS

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