Nitrogen in Tires

Celica GT4 (1500Kg, permanent 4wd - well known to shred tyres at a rate of knots - ask any owners club member from Aus, the US or the UK).

Nothing is seriously wrong - this is how fast the tyres wear on a fast car driven "spiritedly" though without skidding or wheelspin.

J
Reply to
Coyoteboy
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I defiantly agree. None of the 30+ years worth of tires that I have had ever would leak enough air to count unless they were worn or something was wrong with the wheel/tire. And I have never seen any kind of deterioration to the inside part of my tire or rim from the dead air in it.

Reply to
Danny G.

If you put nitrogen in your damn tyres, maybe they would last longer than 2 years!

Reply to
Bill Tuthill

lol, maybe! Not sure its available in the UK actually. Ive given up caring to be honest, my car is only for fun and the occasional long distance trip - most weekdays it doesnt get touched these days :(

Reply to
Coyoteboy

15K is on "cheap" tyres, i had continentals that lasted longer but didnt grip anywhere near as well. (215/40/17s). Never had tyres that lost pressure though, ever, across several cars with and without alloys. Do you live in a hot place? Maybe the heat makes the rubber softer and more porous? I'm clutching at straws now im afraid!
Reply to
Coyoteboy

Your experience jogged a pleasant memory of mine of my brothers "sleeper"

1967 Chevy Nova. Thing went thru tires like water. And a lot of steel wool at inspection time ;)
Reply to
mark digital©

Its a pain in the arse, I've spent hundreds getting it 4wheel laser aligned at least twice that i remember and it still does it despite being smack bang on manufacturer specs! I guess some cars just work that way!

Reply to
Coyoteboy

I don't know if this is useful, but in another Totota group, someone mentioned that he had endless tire wear problems with his pickup truck. Then, he found a mechanic who believed that "within spec" is not enough. He thought alignment had to be dead center within spec. Between -3 and +3 no enough. It had to be 0 (using fake numbers here).

Your mileage may vary, and certainly will. :)

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Yeah I think we've probably read the same things, certainly the first time i went in it was set in an "agressive" manner, good for turn-in control but scrubbed a lot. The guys i had it done on the last two times used fully computerised laser alignment and went for smack bang in the middle (got a printout of all the info before and after) and it does help but not too much. It tends to shred the shoulders of the fronts and the insides of the rears, despite being "correctly" aligned. I wondered if i was running too low a pressure (stock pressure is 30-32) and Ive run everything from 30 to

38 and up near 38 it does indeed reduce it but on 40 profile tyres its like not having tyres at all and very slippy in the wet.

I stick at 34 front and 32 rear now, nice balance of wear vs grip! New bearings on the front and new bushes, new bushes on the rear (car has been mechanically almost totally restored with new parts at considerable expense!).

J
Reply to
Coyoteboy

Slippy. Don't be a wimp. Real manly men don't need traction. :)

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Pansy!

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

LOL :), having had understeery Peugeot 205 for many years, going to a grippy car was lovely! I hate going backwards! Call me a girl but I like 4x4 grip :D

Reply to
Coyoteboy

So they are the same. N2 and O2 are smaller than "rubber molecules" and will therefore be permeating / effusing through it (rubber).

Then you won't agree as you have stated you don't want to argue theory, just what you are told.

Feel free to test away, too.

Hammo

Reply to
Hammo

Hammo mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota:

Permeation involves adsorbtion onto a solid surface and passing through the structure, only to undergo desorbtion at the far side. Effusion is molecules passing directly through a substance without contact with the other matter on the way through. For effusion you need VERY small molecules and relatively large intermolecular gaps in the solid.

Reply to
Coyoteboy

Where are you obtaining this idea of adsorption from? It would be possible to conclude that from your inference that it is state dependant and that is surely not the case.

Don't forget structures like crown ethers and macrocyclic structures that would also contradict your view point on permeate, adsorption and effuse. Not to mention electrochemistry that is utilised to reclaim precious metals from waste.

BTW, you might like to determine what you consider to be the size of a "rubber molecule" (particularly w.r.t. the size of O2 or N2 and "rubber sized intermolecular gaps)"? Or, is this a laminar vs turbulent flow issue on a micro level?

Hammo

Reply to
Hammo

Reply to
Enorym

If you have a small puncture, the difference in molecule size is going to be irrelevant, any size puncture is "huge" compared to the size of the molecules. And one more time, ordinary air is 80% Nitrogen. The biggest advantage for race car is that "pure" nitrogen doesn't include any water vapor. This makes the build-up of pressure as the tires heat up more predictable. For passenger car tires this is not a concern.

Continental Tires address the use of notrogen on thie web site. From

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Using Nitrogen in Tires

Nitrogen is an inert (non-flammable) gas - basically, nothing more than dry air with oxygen removed. For example, ambient air contains about 78% nitrogen. Because of nitrogen's inert properties, it is often used in highly specialized tire service applications and/or demanding environments. These tire service applications usually include aircraft, mining, and commercial/heavy use. Also, nitrogen is used in professional motor racing involving extreme vehicle speeds. We understand that dry nitrogen is used in this regard to help reduce tire pressure variations where even small differences in pressure can affect vehicle handling at the extreme limits of performance.

For normal everyday consumer tire service applications, nitrogen tire inflation is not required.

However, nitrogen tire inflation does not harm tires and may marginally contribute to reductions in tire inflation loss by permeation. Nevertheless, nitrogen will not prevent any tire inflation loss caused by punctures, tire/rim interface (bead) leaks, valve leaks, valve/rim interface leaks, wheel leaks, and other mechanical leaks. Again, the use of nitrogen alone does not substitute for the importance of regularly checking tire inflation pressure. If the tire inflation pressure is below the pressure specified on the vehicle placard, the tire must be re-inflated - whether with air or nitrogen - to the proper inflation pressure. Do not operate tires underinflated and/or overloaded (see "Warning").

Whether inflated with air or nitrogen, regular tire inflation pressure maintenance remains critical and necessary. Use of nitrogen alone is not a replacement for regular tire inflation pressure maintenance.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Hammo mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota:

I dont have time to think in that sort of depth, I was simply textbook explanations of them. I have my own equally interesting but complex problems to consider! But seeing as you seem to have a good knowledge feel free to explain away for us :)

Reply to
Coyoteboy

Ha ha, fair enough, I no longer work in that field, and, like you find my current challenges are more compelling. I need to stop procrastinating and get the new motor into my ae82 Corolla and put another timing belt and tensioner into the ae92!

Cheers \ Hammo

Reply to
Hammo

Hammo mumbled incoherently to the rest of alt.autos.toyota:

My engine and box is out awaiting center differential backlash adjustment and a new clutch, and might as well do a timing belt while im at it!

Reply to
Coyoteboy

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