OT small talk

There's two types of wall mounted propane units I had seriously considered for general heating especially because they operated on no electricity and have oxygen depletion sensors. The price of the units were right but I couldn't decide whether the blue flame (heats air primarily) or radiant (heats objects more than air) would be better. And talk about putting the horse before the cart, I find out MA doesn't allow either one. I'm still tempted though as an emergency backup. If there was a prolonged outage I 'd have to rely on a DC to AC inverter to run the kerosene heaters. For a short run maybe a APC power pack.

Reply to
mark digital©
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I was thinking maybe Scott lays on top of the comforter to avoid messing up his bed. But then I remember him saying he was in the service, so he *knows* how to make a bed and fast! Good old habits never die.

Probably has a neat and orderly sock drawer ;)

Reply to
mark digital©

I had seriously considered a vented natural gas wall mounted heater, but it would have ment running a gas lin at least 50 feet underground just out side the house and into the garage, on top of that the heater needs so much clearance from the wall and on top of that I didn't have any available wall space. They do have the ceiling mounted heaters which are a more attractive unit for the shop, but they are more money. So I struggle with my little kero unit.

Reply to
dbu,.

I used to live in a Mobile Home (yes, I was Trailer Trash once! ;) and we had to use #1 because the tank was outside and #1 doesn't gel easily.

Did you really notice a difference switching to Kerosene? And, are you SAVING anything?!?!?!

Not intrerested in saving the Planet; more interested in saving $$$!!!

Reply to
Hachiroku

LOL! I learned the hard way...DON'T use a kerosene heater when you're painting! We were laying down a primer coat on a friend's VW, and it was coming out pretty good, and then the heater kicked on. Instant Fisheye! Looked like I was spraying the car with tapioca...

Reply to
Hachiroku

MA does allow them! But, they have to be permanently mounted, with the gas plumbed, can't be used in a bedroom, and all the permits, inspections, etc in place. They sell them at Aubuchon for about $179. Liquid Propane or natural gas.

You CAN'T use them as a portable heater with a 50lb tank, like they can be set up for.

Maybe your town doesn't allow them.

I have a vented wall-mount heater I haven't set up yet because of all the regs. Had it for 2 years. Can't put it in my garage because it is under the house and unfinished, but I CAN use it in the living room or the bedroom because it's vented.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Where are you at?

The real problem is, the company doesn't make the vent tube anymore, and they have none in stock. A local heating supply house told me I can use galvanized chimney stock for the vent.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Less than 325 gallons for a whole calendar year/ heat and hot water *versus*

900 gallons #2/ smaller kitchen and basement left cold. K1 feeds to a 19K BTU 4 stage burner and a 41K BTU 4 stage burner and on-demand tankless H2O. When operating, one unit uses 80 watts and the other uses 100 watts. Cleaning the fuel filter is simple. All it is is a small thimble size mesh screen that you dip in fresh K1. Logic circuit board and multiple safety shut off features. Not hot to the touch. Variable speed blower fan with no air filter. Simply wipe clean or vacuum at end of heating season.

I admit it does bother me to see #2 at $1.79 a gallon and K1 at $2.59 per gallon right now but this is the largest price disparity I've seen in 15 years. I started this change over when #2 was 35 cents a gallon and K1 was

42 cents a gallon.

BTW, you remember that winter a few years ago it was really warm? Only used

227 gallons. Everybody's fuel consumption was way low.
Reply to
mark digital©

I still used about 500. And my furnace is

Reply to
Hachiroku

If this shop has a lot of metalworking and power tools, you should get away from an unvented heater as soon as possible, even if you have to trench for the gas line.

The heater is dumping gallons of water vapor into the air to make all your tools rust. And you need to provide enough outside air for combustion (and to get rid of that added water vapor) so most of your heat leaves with the airflow.

A radiant pipe heater system over the work location heats the people rather efficiently, and then the flue gases are ducted outside.

If you really want to heat the room, get a ceiling hung unit heater. They have new ones (Modine "Hot Dawg")

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are low profile for 8' ceilings (13" or 19" from finishedceiling), with modern inshot burners and sealed combustion chambers.(Sealed combustion and horizontal through wall venting are optional) -->--

Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Yep, I know. My daughter is going thru the same thing. The wording on the contract has changed too. It's difficult to compare one home to another. Some people leave their thermostat alone and others have a different setting for day and night. More inhabitants should mean less fuel cost but then there's more people leaving the refrigerator door open ;)

Reply to
mark digital©

I thought of the darned mosture too, and yes I've got all the stuff, drill press, table saw, bandsaw, ect. I don't run the heater 24/7 only when I'm out there working on a project. My shop is 13X24 feet and completly insulated including the three foot door. Those ceiling heaters look tempting and the venting part is not a problem it's running the darned gas line. I'd have to tap into the meter and then go into a regulator. I forget the pressures they run at the street, I know coming out of the pressure regulator it's very low, in fact I can put my thumb over the end of the copper tubing and stop the gas. The meter is about

50 to 60 feet away.

I'll keep that in mind, maybe this summer I'll see about one. I have to drive about 8 miles one way to get kero, the clear stuff and that does got to be a pain in the arse. Natural gas is here and available and less expensive.

Reply to
dbu,.

I also put up clear plastic over the windows (I have a large Bay winod in the front of the house that leaks like a sieve...I'm ok with cars but not with the house...) and installed a Micro-p thermostat that adjusts the temp for the time of day. Those two things right there reduced my fuel use without living in an Ice Box...

Reply to
Hachiroku

Reply to
mark digital©

Natural gas in the street is anywhere from 5 PSI to 50 PSI, or higher if you're in a rural area. If you have a simple one-stage regulator, it's probably under 25 PSI.

Once it hits the regulator and goes through the meter it's at 4" to

6" Water Column - under 0.5 PSI. This is why you have to put in pipes that appear insanely oversized, because of pressure drop over long distances. For a heater in the garage, 1" line minimum.

Dig the stupid trench this summer. And if there's any chance of going into ceramics or home metal casting, go way big now to provide flow for a large burner - 2" pipe or better.

Oh, and be sure to drop extra pipes and conduits in there now for other utilities a garage shop needs - Power, Phone, CATV, water, compressed air... Or bury a few big 4" ABS drain-pipe sections as sleeves so you can slide them through later.

You need the green plastic jacketed black steel pipe (with all joints sealed with Scotchwrap tape and brushed-on primer) for underground gas use, so the pipe doesn't rust and leak.

They make special plastic pipe if you want to track it down. And there's a new flex pipe that can be buried - corrugated Stainless tubing with plastic over-wraps. But you have to take a special installation training course to buy it.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Thanks for all that Bruce. If I'm not mistaken we can use copper tubing. I know inside the basement copper tubing is used to feed the furnace and WH from the outside meter. I'll have to check with the city for code and no doubt I'll have to obtain a permit. I had to have one when I installed the gas water heater. Copper is really expensive here.

Reply to
dbu,.

I wouldn't even try. Copper will work-harden when flexed, even slightly, and snap off - and then you have a big fire. All new gas flex whips from wall to appliance are now stainless with an epoxy coating, and old copper or brass tubing whips are to be replaced when you run across them.

Stick with the plastic coated black steel pipe for underground. You can get the "custom" length chunks cut and threaded at the store for the ends and risers, and the joint protection is easy enough to do yourself.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

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