OT: Traditonal Values Restored

There is no use in my debating traditional values with you. Our standards are different from each other and you will never understand. You already know where I stand on certain issues and they certainly don't match yours.

Nice attempt at trolling though.

I don't want to debate anything. I just want to know what fact (in your mind) made you say that Bush restored some sort of values. Which ones?

To be fair, though, I *will* tell you why I'm asking. Right after the elections, polls indicated a huge amount of disenchantment among voters who categorized themselves as fundamentalist Christians, and who said they ended up voting for Democrats.

So, I'm wondering about these values you're talking about.

Here we go again with another list for you guys to pick apart and call me names for. Oh well, at least I have the backbone to state what I stand for, unlike many of you leftists who just bitch and moan about others.

Traditional values: belief / dependance upon a Creator nuclear family protection of a fetus honesty respect for others hard work responsibility good morals manners

These were once considered admirable qualities but today's liberals have made them something dirty.

This has nothing to do with a person being a good person or not.

Lots of people - probably most if not all - *want* a nuclear family. But it just doesn't always work that way. A school friend, whose parents stayed together while the kids were still in school, thinking it was better for them... I always thought that was such a load of crap - they were always fighting - the parents. Jeez, you could often cut the air w/a knife in that house with the parents staying together for the sake of the kids. Wouldn't a split, resulting in a calm household - free of dissention & acrimony, have been a better environment (for all)?

Down the old never-ending road, where no one will change their mind on a woman's right to choose. And I swear you do NOT get the difference between right to choose & pro-abortion.

Talk about arrogance. None of these are in the least bit of debate, no matter what side of the liberal/conservative line, AFAIK.

Define, maybe?

Not in the least bit of debate here, either. Who says - besides you - that liberals are lacking in manners? If this ng is anything to go by - thinking of some of the conservatives here, they need to learn a few (or more than a few) themselves. To put it mildly. (Yeah, I know, my manners are slipping in this post - I'm a tad P.O-ed.)

You're nuts if this is what you think - that the conservatives are oh, so good & righteous, whereas liberals supposedly have no compasses. Jeez, just take a look around - nevermind everyday people with whom you work & around whom you live - the news alone has provided fodder lately to make one realize this a bunch of baloney.

Cathy

Crap. I know lots of liberals who are into all these things and, conversely, I know "conservatives" who don't respect any of these values. My wife works in a school; it's not at all unusual to find the W04 sticker on the vehicle that belongs to the parent that clearly doesn't care as much about their kid as they care about their trophy house and fancy car.

I don't see how you can use "responsibility" as an aspect of traditional values that Bush restored to the US. He's writing checks as fast as he can and telling people, yes, you CAN have tax cuts. Responsible people pay their bills, they don't leave them to the next generation. The don't pander for votes. He hasn't vetoed a single spending bill.

And while you have listed traditional values, you have not cited one thing Bush has done for them.

And, as far as "nuclear family" goes, whenever you get to the defense of Bush on that, the one thing that's changed about that is that society - part of it, anyway - has become more open to the idea that a nuclear family is whatever a family can be. The kid who's mom or dad turns out to be gay at age 40 no longer has to be treated as some sort of social outcast for a situation over which he has no control. Anything that reduces the hurt on a kid is progress.

These values were never gone, so it's impossible that in a few short years, your president restored them.

How did your president restore values which were never gone in the first place?

By exposing the hypocrisy of the liberal agenda.

Now either contribute something substantive to this discussion or go away. I'm tired of answering your contrived questions.

Tell me what you consider traditional values and how they have been upheld by Democratic politicians.

Contrived questions? This is a list you posted:

1. Banned partial birth abortion.
2. Turned around an economy that was on the verge of recession by cutting taxes for ALL citizens.
3. Restored character and dignity to an office that was a laughing stock.
4. Killed the Kyoto Treaty that was designed to punish the US.
5. Waged two successive wars that put attackers of freedom on the defensive and seriously hampered future terroristic activities.
6. Kept the UN from becoming completely irrelevant.
7. Restored traditional values to America
8. Named constitutional judges to the Supreme Court rather than legislative judges.

I'm asking you to explain #7. You said it. Back it up, or stop saying things which you hide from later.

You can say this with a straight face, considering what various & sundry Republicans (you know, the ones who have a monopoly on the high moral ground!) have been caught out doing in recent months & years?! Hello, but wake up!!! Holy mackerel...

Cathy

Are you referring to that Aryan fella who resigned? The Big Time Christian who was one of Bush's "spiritual advisors?" That guy? The one who was bangin' young boys?

LOL! Were more meaningless words ever uttered?

What are your "values", reich-winger? Better for a thousand Muslims to die than one Christian?

What hypocrisy? He's accused the "liberals" of all sorts of things, few of which have anything to do with actual liberals. Most(*) of the liberals I know are well in tune with, for example, support for the family. The difference is liberals are willing to raise taxes (which they will pay, too) to support any family where conservatives a) don't want to actually part with any money for this and b) are fussy about which families are "worthy" of support. Most of the liberals I know are, in fact, against abortion and would prefer to fight it by being more supportive of the prospective single mother and are of the opinion that anti-abortion legislation crosses a privacy divide that should not be crossed (some pregnancies will have to be terminated to preserve the mother's health, see South Dakota for more details). Most of the liberals I know are, in fact, against premarital - or at least teen - sex but prefer to fight it and the consequences of it with education (as in, abstinence education does not work). Most of the liberals I know attend church regularly (I can't think of a single liberal acquaintance who doesn't).

The US Taliban - the "Evangelical" movement - thinks they can legislate away sin. Well, they're entirely and completely wrong and trying to do so is a waste of time and will often run into Constitutional trouble. I recommend they fight sin by sticking to the teachings of the New Testament and persuading their parishioners of the value of virtue.

Good luck with that, by the way, because some of the most selfish, mean-spirited and licentious b*st*rds I know attend church very regularly. They'll lie to close a deal or to get laid.

But, hey! Believing in Jesus is a "Get Out of Hell Free" card for a lot of these people, so I guess they'll be OK in the afterlife.

(*) - the reason I say, "most," by the way, is because I haven't quizzed them all on their beliefs and habits, some people I know as liberasl just because of their support for certain policies.

Actually, *everybody* is "against" abortion. This is a brain twister for someone like golf boy. But, it's been explained many times in grownup news sources and interviews with real, thinking people, including those involved with pro-choice organizations like NARAL.

We've got a stupid little Limbaugh clone on our local Clear Channel tripe station. During one of his talk shows, he was spewing something about good charities and bad charities. I think it was part of a pitch for United Way. So, he says "People concerned about homelessness sometimes give money to the Open Door Mission, and people who love abortions give money to Planned Parenthood or NARAL...." That resulted in his phones being tied up by angry people for the rest of his program, and via a friend in the radio biz, I found that the station manager had a Very Bad Week afterward.

People like golf boy think this is how women get ready for an abortion: Buy party hats, festive paper plates and cups, hire a magician or balloon twister, order deli assortment, pick up some box wine and a bag of reefer, and have a big party to celebrate the dead baby.

Nobody disputes that. You have been told otherwise, but you may be one of the smarter ones here, so you don't listen to the spew. Right?

He sure had a slip of the tongue, didn't he? This from the guy who argued endlessly that it wasn't a baby, just a fetus that isn't legitimate yet.

I never said that. You never saw it. Try and keep up, boy.

You are correct to say I have lumped all liberals into the same category. Perhaps there are more rational ones that aren't as extremist as the vast majority of leftists in this group. You are the rare one here that has some sense about him and doesn't find ways to insult those who don't agree with you. If only I could see more like you I would choose my words more carefully. Unfortunately the Democratic leadership and and other loud voices that hold themselves up as shining examples of liberalism don't seem to hold the same values you do. I believe if you carefully investigated what your leaders stand for you will start to question whether you really want to be associated with that bunch of wackos.

Let me get this straight: If I claim that you said your mom was a drug smuggler, and you correct me, you're wrong for correcting me?