Re: Told ya....

>> >> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I >>said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right. >> >>
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> >> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the >>incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen. >>Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants >>for examples...

Apparently incompetenet and stupid U.S. Citizens are attrated to Toyotas. Otherwise why were there so many complaints of sudden accelertions realted to Toyota products sent to NHTSA back in 2005 (well before all the publicity)? And why are there so few sudden acceleration complaints logged against GM products? Surely incompetenet and stupid U.S. Citizens puchase GM products. As far as I can tell, Buick is still the choice of the older generation (well either that or an Avalon).

That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of the > problem then other makes.

Exactly. There was a dramatic increase in the number of sudden acceleration incidents for certain Toyota models starting in the 2004/2005 time frame. Something changed then. It is likely that many of these incident were related to pedal confusion. However, the question remains why was there a dramatic increase? Maybe a lot of feeble old people bought

2004/2005/2006/2007 Camrys...but that doesn't seem likely. The shift was concurrent with the change to electronic throttle control. Maybe the new pedal assemblies were relocated and that made pedal confusion more likely. Or maybe the new pedals tended to stick, or were more likely to get caught under mats. Or maybe the new electronic control system lead to unexpected surging, that triggered a panic response, that sometime resulted in wreck becasue of pedal confusion. Even if the electronic signals are not part of the problem, the computer can't know why the pedal was depressed, only that it was. And if the sudden acceleration incident was a result of pedal confusion that itself was a result of panic becasue of a sudden surge related to an electronic fault, I doubt the computer records would indicate the actual origin of the panic (i.e., the unexpected surge). I have personal experience with the crusie control of my SO's RAV4. Under certain conditions it goes wild - racing the engine and downshifting violently. It has never paniced me, but I can see where someone might react in panic.

I am willing to discount many of the post-firestorm sudden acceleration incidents as piling on, or fraud attempts, or just people looking for an excuse for their own failings. However, this does not apply to the sudden increase in incidents in the 2004/2005 time frame related to sudden accelertion complaints. Toyota managed to squash any investigation back then (and the team that squashed it, even had the poor sense to brag about it in a power point sent to executives in Japan). It was an unfortunate cover-up, but was typical of Toyota's long standing practices. And it seems to me that Toyota is using the recent NHTSA reports that many sudden acceleration are the result of pedal confusion to implement another long standing Toyota practice - deflect negative attention by any means necessary, including blaming the Customer. The Toyota excuse machine is using these "favorable" reports to create a fog that I am sure they hope will hide the fact that there was an extrodinarily high incident of sudden acceleration incidents for Toyota vehicles after the change to elecronic throttle controls.

Ed White

Reply to
C. E. White
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If you're looking for a reason, Japan's engineering culture (like that of the Germans) isn't one that that traditionally panders to the incompetent. GM, being an american company, would have an engineering culture that panders to the incompetent thanks to their legal department. Basically the incompetent are safer in a GM product than one imported from Japan.

The Corvair is a good example of how GM was taught to make it's products such that they were safe for the incompetent. The Corvair's handling was not all that different than other cars of that layout of that era. Perhaps a bit behind the learning curve of other makes, but it was GM's first. In any case the car handled differently than what people were used to and it was the car that was considered 'unsafe' rather than the drivers' failure to realize they weren't driving the same old rear drive front engine chevy any more. GM learned not to 'confuse' american car buyers this way again.

Also keep in mind that GM etc have been losing market share to Toyota. So those who had been buying Buicks suddenly buy a Toyota. They go to drive the toyota the way they drove their buicks and errors are made because of closer pedal placement or other things that aren't wrong but simply different.

Not to say there isn't a software problem or other issue in the toyotas of course, just reasoning for why it could be in absence of one.

Reply to
Brent

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