Toyota or Honda

Toyota uses the same rust protection methods for every vehicle in the line. The only differences would with differences in body design or vehicle use. For example, a truck might have mud guards and more anti-chip paint behind the wheels, because more rocks are thrown up by the tires.

Toyota does not try to achieve the same goal with cheaper methods in Corollas. Rather, every vehicle gets the most cost effective method to achieve rust protection from the factory.

Officially, Toyota does not recommend additional rust-proofing beyond what comes from the factory. This is for several reasons - Toyota is not going to guarantee the results of something they cannot control, like the effectiveness of the aftermarket rustproofing material; Toyota is certainly not going to guarantee their paint is someone goes and drills holes, breaking the factory seal; some sticky and tar-like material actually traps moisture and promotes rust; an aftermarket applier might spray something and ruin it, like seat belt retractors, heater cores, wiring, linkages, etc; some undercoating might catch fire on places like the catalytic converter; some rust-proofing might attack the paint or primer.

I do not believe in any rust proofing that requires drilling body panels, sills, etc. because in every one I've seen, there is rust where the holes were drilled.

TeGGeR speaks highly of 2 types of rust-proofing sold in Canada, Krown and Rust Check. Both are drippy and need to be re-applied every year. Automatic transmission fluid applied this way can also be effective and also needs to be re-applied every year. I agree that in theory, the less viscous, stuff will be more effective and not trap moisture but the drawback is the need for periodic re-application.

I live in the Chicago area, previously lived in New England. I had to do a study of salt application while I lived there and found out that in Vermont, they apply an average of 10 tons of salt/sand mixture per lane mile per season. That salt/sand mixture is the worst possible stuff on cars, in terms of corrosion and sandblasting and chipping.

If someone is concerned about how well a vehicle will hold up after 10 or 15 years, the best thing to do is to go to a crowded parking lot (the malls this time of the year are perfect) and take a look at 1990 Camrys, Corollas, Civics, Accords, or whatever else you're interested in and see how they are holding up. The new versions will likely be at least as good, if not better. Don't pay too much attention to the glossiness of the paint because that can be re-polished as long as there is no rust.

I'm in Canada, and I still see lots of late 80s/early 90s Toyotas and Hondas of all models. Some have really bad rust, some have moderate rust, and some have little to no rust at all. But the thing is, they are still running. Most GM, Ford and Crapsler models from the same period are quickly dropping like flies around here simply because they become too expensive to maintain any longer (or the rust caught up with them too).

Aye,...as long as the oil-change intervals are observed, they go for a looooong time,...however, in Australia Honda parts tend to be more expensive than Toyota. Is this the case in the US?

The Honda is considered a 'notch-up' due to its perceved more sophisticated engineering and advanced technology, in the past. It is also more expensive to buy. These days the Toyota product is everybit as nicely engineered, so I'm not so sure that argument is correct, now.

Jason

Adding my two $0.02, it might be a bit harder to change the oil on the Honda Accord.

My aunt drove here (close to San Francisco) from Los Angeles in her Accord (I don't remember the model year, but the car was fairly recent), and told my dad something seemed wrong with the engine. Dad asked her, "when was the last time you changed the oil?" She said, "Oil?" So dad looked at the oil level, yes it was really low, and changed her oil. Later, dad said it was nearly impossible to reach the drip pan nut, but he finally got it... if I recall correctly the oil filter is in a difficult position to reach, too.

Anyone have a similar experience (with difficulty changing the oil, hopefully not forgetting to change the oil)? Has Honda corrected this problem?

Define "rust problem". Does it mean "eventually the car will rust"? Most modern cars will go over ten years, even in the salt/rust belt, without significant rusting.

Gosh, what a surprise. I have never been a proponent of the rust-proofing scam outfits.

What is the exact difference between "cheap" and "cost effective"?? :-) I have always heard the second as a "sugar coated" version of "cheap".

My question would be: is this THE SAME sheet metal used for corolla and camry body or a different one ? The same base metal? The same coating? The same paint finish ?

I define "cheap" as the lowest possible cost, whether it works or not. I define "cost effective" as the lowest possible cost that is effective.

Yes and no. Yes, both cars have the same anti-corrosion treatment - metal formulation, primer, paint, clear-coat, processes, etc. In fact, Toyota has multiple vehicle series on the same assembly line so they get built and processed the same way.

No in that the metal thickness will vary depending on where in the vehicle it is used. For example, the hood is thinner than the floor pan. Don't ask me if the floor plan thickness or hood thickness is the same as in the Corolla as in the Camry because it is an irrelevant question. Thickness will depend on a cocmbination of factors including strength, weight, and mallability. Automakers do not make a body panel thicker in order to make it more or less rust-resistant. They adjust sheet thickness based on other design factors.

What do you mean by base metal?

The same coating?

Yes.

The same paint finish ?

Yes - if the color is the same.

As I mentioned above, Toyota mixes vehicle series in the same production line so it is easier to make them all the same than to try to make them different.

on theother hand, my wife's civic, after almost 20 years, is still going great on the original transmission, even with the less than routine maintainance she does.

Naughty naughty fo the slight of hand, btw - dismissing all hondas with one sweep aint good, or accurate.

My Sister's 97 Honda Civic is not difficult to change if you put it on a lift, ramps, or jack it up, and you know where the filter is located. The filter is on the back side of the engine under the intake manifold and cannot be seen from above. And when you change the oil it is common to have some drip from the filter onto the exhaut pipe.

Ed

Argentina, last 4 yaers, before that they used much higher quality steel from Turkey

Your mufflers statement reminds me one more thing about camry: my '95 camry @ 197 k miles runs still on the original exhaust!

Yeah... behind the engine is a really interesting place to put an oil filter. :) I wonder why the Honda engineers would choose that kind of a design...

Dad didn't have ramps, but I always use ramps when I change my oil. I'm just too big to fit under the car without 'em. :)

That's another thing too... to the OP, are you tall? I'm tall, and quite comfortable with the camry's seating. A smaller car would be a bit of a squeeze, at least for me.

And we'll all just believe that nonsense, even without evidence! 8)

That was an unfortunate mistake on my part. I meant Honda Accords.

You have four good choices and will probably be happy with any of them. Pick the one that you feel most comfortable driving... or the one you can get the best deal on.

I personally lean towards Toys, but enjoyed the Honda that I owned years ago. I put 180K miles on an '88 Corolla that was a wonderful reliable and easy to maintain car. I have 150K miles on a '95 Camry that I drive daily. Another fabulous car. I bought a new Corolla last year and love it, too.

Best wishes!

I would say either Honda or Toyota would be good as far as drive train, engine and comfort are concerned. If you live in the snow belt. I'd opt for the Toyota. The Honda brand rusts out very quickly. There are many Hondas that are only a couple of years old with major rust behind the wheels above the rear bumper cover. The front fenders develop ugly rust very fast.

If you live in non-snowy areas, this probably would not be a concern to you.

JJ

You siad - "Your mufflers statement reminds me one more thing about camry: my '95 camry @ 197 k miles runs still on the original exhaust!"

This is not uncommon for cars with stainless steel exhaust systems. My '86 Sable had the original exhaust when it was hauled to the junk yard in 2001 after getting in the way of a tree. My '97 Expedition had the OE exhaust when it was traded with 147,000 miles. On the other hand aluminiuzed steel mufflers aren't nearly as durable. As far as I can tell, my Sister's Honda had stainless steel parts up to the muffler. Why the muffler wasn't stainless steel is a mystery.

Ed

Will the same exhaust system (stainless) be installed in accord, camry as in civic and corolla? Or altima and sentra?