18,000 miles/year - is that high for a 2003 Camry?

I've never leased a car, so I don't know if there are any provisions for less-than-normal mileage.

We're speaking statistically here. You know, "normal" as in "normal distribution?" Arithmetic means and sigmas and expected values and all that kind of stuff?

Says who?

Yes, that's a lot of mileage PER YEAR. However, a 50K TOTAL mile car is not considered a "high mileage car." Camrys are fairly reliable and durable, you should expect it to last a while.

I like to buy recent cars with higher mileage:

- Usually this depresses the price, so you get a good deal.

- It's very difficult to put a lot of miles on the car in stop-and-go, so they're probably highway miles, which isn't as much stress on the drivetrain (IMHO).

We don't put a lot of miles on our cars, so in another 5 years or so I can buy a used car with "high mileage" and, over time, convert it into an older used car with "average" or even "low mileage."

I'd be more concerned about the condition and maintenance. If all seems well, and you think the price a good one, the mileage should not be a problem.

Have you considered buying a new Camry instead? For another $5K or so, you might be able to get a NEW Camry with ZERO miles.

This is the flip side of high Toyota resale value, you'll have a difficult time finding a good one, used, at a really good price. Especially at a Toyota dealer.

If you really want to save some money by buying used, shop around for a private seller who has solid records and a clean CarFax on his car. Ask to call whoever services the car. Get a thorough checkout with a mechanic you can trust. See if you can find one that's still in warranty (newer than a

2003, most likely, of course) or for which the owner purchased an extended warranty (if they transfer). *** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

Scott en Aztlán challenges:

: The definition of "normal" used by the leasing companies is : self-serving

Unrealistically low for some places, such as spread-out, car-centric California -- L.A. and the Bay Area in particular. Obviously, people in such places are generally going to put more miles in their cars in the course of a year than car owners in locales that are less spread out and have more comprehensive mass-transit systems (e.g., New York, Boston). Since Edmunds has no obvious ulterior motive, I ascribe it to an ill-advised, insufficiently granular "one size fits all" approach.

Since Edmunds, Kelly et al. value cars differently in different parts of the country reflecting differing markets, adding some granularity to what constitutes "normal" annual mileage based on broad regional driving habits would be a logical next step in refining their product, wouldn't you say?

Geoff

Scott en Aztlán wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Just to put in my two cents worth. Average was 12,497 in 2004, according to

Don't what is considered normal.

When my kids were little, we would out 20K per year easy. Never leased a vehicle for that reason alone. Now that the littlest one is taking flight, I might get by on 5K this year. BTW, my gas usage double when the oldest comes home and borrows the car.

Doug

There's a good reason 75 to 80% (your own figures from previous posts) of Camrys are sold with the I4. The I4 is plenty lively enough. I know several people who own 4-cylinder Camrys and they have NO complaints about performance.

If you compare the '06 I4 Camry to the '06 V6 Impala, you see that they have, theoretically, nearly identical power-to-weight ratios but the VVTi system on the Camry really delivers the goods for low-end torque and is probably a much better engine than that Chevy pushrod mill. If the Camry's not quick enough, then neither is the base Impala and I don't see you criticizing it for lack of power.

In any event, I'd avoid strictly used-car lots unless you know them well. I've CarFaxed VINs from a bunch while car-shopping recently and many reports looked suspicious.

You'd do just as well - probably better - hunting for a private seller and investing $50 in a good mechanics' checkout. And get a CarFax. It's just $25 or so for unlimited reports for a month, which gives you plenty of time to look around. Many dealers and auto market web sites provide the VIN, so you can check before you even go to look.

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

: Naah, not anymore.

Sez me and my pal Common Sense.

Lots of people (not all, but a statistically significant fraction) live farther from their jobs than they did twenty or thirty years ago due to escalating real estate prices closer to metropolitan areas. (That's why I live in Santa Cruz even though it means a

45 minute to 1-hour commute to Silicon Valley, for instance.) All that extra driving to and from work can't help but have an effect on the total number of miles more and more people are driving each year, which skews the average upward.

Geoff

I don't know for sure but I don't believe he was considering the purchase of a Chevy. He was looking at a Camry. There is no question the V6 is a far better engine for the Camry than the anemic 4, by comparison. There apparently are a lot of Camry buyers willing to accept the performance of the 4 cy Camry rather than pay the many more thousands of dollars that Toyota charges for the V6, however a used V6 is not that much more expensive than the 4, when used.

mike

Price guides do not use the term 'normal,' they use the term 'average' when adjusting pricing for mileage.

mike hunt

I would think a significant benefit, however, is in the paperwork. If you lease, the payments plus gas, insurance and maintenance, are your "expenses" and you don't have to schedule depreciation and then figure out what the tax treatment of unusually good resale value might be.

One place I worked owned a leasing company. The company I worked for didn't "own" anything else, the leasing company owned it all. I think it made things simpler for the operating company but maybe it just made it easier to hide the dirty deeds. ;-)

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

I did not imply the OP was considering a Chevy. I was responding to your routine allegation that I4 Camrys are "underpowered" by pointing out that the I4 Camry has nearly the same power-to-weight ratio as the V6 Impala, which you have never troubled to criticize as being "underpowered." If the I4 Camry is "underpowered," then so is the Impala.

In addition, the Camry sports VVTi, which gives the engine an extra wallop that the spec figures alone do not reveal. You get a much wider torque curve with a Toyota DOHC VVTi engine than with one of Chevy's pathetic pushrod motors.

And we further know the Camry is not "underpowered" because, if it was, 75 to 80% (your own figures) of Camrys would not get sold as I4s. The judgement of the market is that the I4 Camry is "powerful" enough.

It's unfortunate for the Impala buyer, however, that GM marketing image trumps substance and the Impala buyer can't get an economical I4 engine in his Impala.

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

Don't think so----considering they are selling 2007 Camrys NOW.

Not if you live in an area with long commutes and good recreational possibilites.

"normal" is defined by the leasing companies for one reason: to get a monthly payment that looks good in advertising. The number of allowed miles determines the monthly payment.

Like I said, there are many, many leases out there that are 12K, 10K, and even 8K--typically on higher end cars. That's to get the low number in big print to attract business. Does that make 8K a "normal" amount?

Face it: you're wrong. You always were wrong, and you have no clue as to the real world.

Er, I allowed for that possibility in my second paragraph, which you seem to have overlooked:

: (That's barring the BS that some manufacturers have pulled : in recent years of giving certain landmark models model-year : designations 1-2 calendar years in the future when they're : first introduced, of course...)

There ought to be a law against that sort of thing. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a consumer outcry against it. The idea that a car of a certain model year was manufactured between late summer of the previous calendar year and early summer of the stated model year is traditional and has become institutionalized over a period of decades. No car that's being sold in the spring of 2006 should be billed as a 2007...period.

Boycott Toyota!

Geoff

What does comparing an Impala have anything to do with him looking at a Camry? Why would anybody want a car as large as an Impala with a puny 4 cy, in any event? Especially when one can drive home an Impala with a V8 that get over 30 MPG for less money than a V6 Camry? LOL

mike hunt

For business and individuals the biggest benefit of leasing is one need not tie up their capitol. Why lay out $30,000 of one capital funds to purchase a vehicle when you need only pay that part of the cost of the vehicle that is incurred in two or three years with a lease? Simply change oil every six months and turn it in for another new vehicle in two or three years, all the while it is covered by a warranty. When I was in retail many, when we suggested a lease would be a better option for them if they are going to continue to trade for a new vehicle every three years, was "I want to own my vehicle." The fact few did actually own the vehicle they were trading, the back did. They owned many more months of payment and some owed a year or more.

mike hunt

all the manufacturers do it MB is selling '07s, I bought my 05 apr 6 of 04, I get an extra year of depreciation, but on the other hand I have 50k miles on a "1 year old" car

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If you like the Camry good enough than I would say just go for it. One big PLUS is that it has the 4 cylinder engine which is a lot more economical/fuel efficient and is immune to that Oil Sludge/gelling V6 Toyota problem for that time frame.

East-