'98 V6 bad fuel economy / O2 sensor? IAC ?

Hey all,

I've noticed that the fuel economy on my '98 Camry V6 (99k mi) has been bad recently. I usually get 24-26+ and I'm seeing 20-22. Work is 1 mile city, 7 miles Highway and then 1 more mile city (9 total). I drive

65-70 mph on the highway and ~45 MPH in the city. I always use 91 octane Chevron gas and try to fill at the same station.

My thinking is the car is running too rich for some reason.

Some background checks I did:

I pulled the dip-stick (it's about 3K miles since last oil change, Mobil-1), color is good but I can definitely smell gas.

I pulled a spark plug on the exposed bank and while the tip isn't charcoal black, it is darker than the outter edges of the bent electrodes. The base area of the spark plug, at the very end of the thread (closest to the electrode) IS completely black.

OBD2 testing:

I was able to borrow a friend's OBD2 code reader and I noticed a few things about the Long Term Fuel Trim settings:

At idle/foot off the gas LT FT #1 is usually -8 to -4% while LT FT #2 is

-2% to 0. Under any decent amount of throttle/speed (35 MPH+) LT FT #1 and LT FT #2 are quickly adjusted (almost snapped) to the same, usually

-3%.

Standing still (neutral or park), if I steadily increase the RPM from

2000 to 3500, I can see the LT FT #1 start to go more positive approaching the value of LT FT #2.

Does this sound normal? At idle/low-speed should one bank be considerably trimmed more than the other?

Since my driving style is to let off the gas to slow down and then gently re-apply to speed up, I think the ECU is running banks the majority of the time with the idle/low-speed Fuel Trim settings, which seem highly mismatched.

The OBD2 code reader I have doesn't graph data, but looking at the sensor values at speed (45 MPH+), it looks like the O2 sensor after the cat (Bank 1, #2) is relatively slowly varying, indicating (I think) that the O2/feedback system is working correctly (at least at highway speeds).

Is there any easy way to probe the O2 sensors with a oscilliscope or is the OBD2 method the only way? I opened up "DLC1" in the engine bay but the pins for the OX hook-ups are missing (there are just a few terminals with metal contacts).

Finally, I notice if I let off the throttle completely while moving (i.e if I'm going 40 MPH or revving the engine to 2500 RPM then back off the throttle), the OBD2 indicates for a short period the FUEL SYS#1 and FUEL SYS#2 are OPEN (loop) then switch back to closed loop.

Is this also normal?

Suggestions and commentary appreciated.

Jay.

Reply to
Jay
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I really doubt you smell gasoline in the oil while still getting MPG in the low twenties.

The tip is supposed to be white and the metal housing that is exposed to combustion gases will always be black on a used plug.

Yes, normal. What you are seeing is the ECU adjusting for differences in the header pipe length (the forward pipe being longer than the rear bank which creates a little more backpressure).

Well DUH. Same as a carburetor would do .... idle to transition circuit and back.

Yes. Electronic fuel injection shuts off fuel delivery during coast until about 1500 rpms or ... if the coasting condition lasts for an excessive amount of time, the delivery may be restarted to keep the catalyst from overcooling.

Jay, you didn't mention where you live. Seasonal changes in air temperature and region changes in gasoline formulation account for a high degree of MPG loss about the time of year.

--

  -Philip
Reply to
Philip

A CRO switched to DC coupling will act as an excellent high impedance DC voltmeter. Just move the timebase with ground selected at Y input (vertical deflection) to a convenient reference point on the screen,..then switch to DC (not AC) while the probe is connected to the O2 sensor and the earth clip is grounded on the chassis.. The trace will shift upwards proportional to the DC output of the O2 sensor. Multiply shift in CMs by the input attenuation millivolts per CM setting.

I haven't tried this, and its possible the EHT or spark generation will be picked up by the CRO as well,.....worth a try tho as CROs are usually in the region of 10meg-ohm input loading and will not damage or load down the sensor. AFAIK you can do the measurement with the sensor off line to the ECU or on line. The latter may produce some reading offset due to ECU backfeeding some of its rail.

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

Is your timing belt old, they stretch retarding timing, reducing engine temp and mileage and power. You probably need a tune up anyway

Reply to
m Ransley

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