New initiate to OIL CHANGE CLUB

Yes, this is true. But of course there's no real difference in terms of performance between the two, especially operated in a non-high-performance engine.

Of course there's no advantage to synthetic at all in non-high-performance engines where the oil is changed every 5K miles, but that's for another thread.

Reply to
SMS
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Also, most of the cabs used in the study where large American cars like the Ford Crown Vic and Chevy Caprice. These cars (and engines) were very old designs from long before 1996, and the engine tolerances (even when new) are so loose that measuring engine wear is difficult.

Reply to
Mark A

Considered how long Built_Well spent talking and posting about it before he actually did it (at least 6 months and hundreds of posts), I am sure that it was a climax for him after talking about it for so long.

Reply to
Mark A

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Is there something unusual about waiting 6 months between oil changes?

I recommend everyone read Doctor Ali Haas' article on viscosity and synthetics. I was very impressed with Mister Haas.

Reply to
Built_Well

Seeing that engine tolerances are measured down to .001 or .0001 inch it would be very easy to spot any wear in an engine. Why do you believe it would be different on an engine manufactured before 1996 ?

Reply to
Mike

Built Well, keep in mind that changing oil and choosing an oil for your car is not rocket science. I've been doing oil changes since I was 14 years old, and the methodology has not changed in the 38 years since then. Rather than focusing on the chemical qualities of the oil and over-analyzing which oil is going to give you the best gas mileage, you should focus on A) using oil that meets API quality SM and B) change the oil in a timely manner.

Follow those 2 recommendations from the folks who made your car and the engine and catalytic should last a long time.

A factory replacement catalytic converter costs well over a thousand dollars, so any so-called savings from using non API specified oil will be gone.

There are plenty of other tricks that will improve fuel economy a lot more than what some supposed super-oil will get. For example, empty all unnecessary junk from the car and trunk, keep your tires inflated to 5 PSI over the recommendation on the door plate, avoid warming up the car more than 20 seconds, avoid unnecessary idling, and allow the transmission to upshift as quickly as possible. Those tricks cost nothing (my kind of price), and with them, I get a pretty consistent 18.6 MPG around town in my car with a 4.3 liter V8 engine and 25~25 on the highway in "spirited" driving.

The vague and IMO misleading verbiage in Amsoil's web site makes me distrust the company and their products and makes me think that they have something to hide. Rather than using the standard disclaimers and small print that most companies use, Amsoil seems to use vague wording in order to avoid being accused of being misleading. Their products may or may not be great, but the feeling that they are hiding something makes me uneasy, and rather than waste time trying to read between their lines, I just stick to a name brand oil from a company that says it like it is.

Reply to
Ray O

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Ray O, those are all very good points you made, and would you believe, I actually knew some of them. To maximize mileage, I always keep as little in the car as possible, inflate tires midway between the door sill figure (29 psi) and the sidewall figure (44 psi). Got 38 psi in them right now. Drove

100 miles in the pouring rain between St. Louis and Columbia without a problem at 38 psi. I don't accelerate fast, and on the highway, I keep the windows closed to improve mileage.

I'm not a seasoned, experienced Expert like you by any means at all. You're a true expert with vast automotive knowledge, and I'm simply a novice. But if I ruin my car, we're just talking about a Camry here, not an expensive Lexus or a Sequoia like you have. So I'm seriously considering using at the next oil change 0w-30 since it will be better for the car at cold startup than 5w-30. You know, less engine wear. That '08 Camry Solara we talked about a few months ago that was on display at Sam's Club, had both 5w-20 and 0w-20 on its oil filler cap, and the engine is the same 2AZ as my '06 Camry, but I'll stick with the 30-weight oil recommended in my manual--won't fiddle with 20-weight. I'll just switch up from 5w- to

0w :-)

Remember the '06 Hyundai? Its manual showed both 5w-20 and

5w-30, two different weights of oil.

I learned today that the amount of ZDDP in the Amsoil 0w-30 is .08 percent, which is the same amount of ZDDP as in other oils that are API SM certified, so the catalytic converter shouldn't be harmed.

If anything goes wrong though, I never transmitted this message ;-)

But seriously, there's still a whole 6 months before the next oil change, and I may just chicken out of my grand plans :-)

Reply to
Built_Well

....Umm, meant to say '06 Hyundai Sonata.

Reply to
Built_Well

?????

Reply to
Calab

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Calab, the '06 Hyundai Sonata's manual listed both 5w-20 and 5w-30 , two different weights of oil.

Reply to
Built_Well

If you are saying that an engine for a current American car is the same piece of crap it was 25 years ago, then I am no position to dispute that. However, when comparing a Crown Vic engine with one from Toyota, you are comparing apples and oranges.

Reply to
Mark A

I like KISS solutions like the ones you're using. They work, they don't cost anything, and they're easy to implement.

I may be "seasoned" and "experienced" but the automotive engineers I used to work with and learned from are the real experts. Many of the automotive engineers I used to work with had project cars, and they all used the products that they thought were the best available in those cars. None used Amsoil - they haven't led me wrong yet, so I'll stick to the tried and true since I really don't want to pay to replace the engines in any of my cars, even the cheaper than a Camry Escort.

I never understand why people are so determined to defend and use products from a company that seems to be so deliberately elusive about whether their product conforms to the standards that every other company uses.

Reply to
Ray O

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Ray O, I think the reason so many people defend Amsoil is because used oil analyis doesn't lie.

Boutique oils from companies like Amsoil and RLI consistently turn in better engine wear numbers than the big boys like ExxonMobil. In fact, Group V oils like RLI's may be the future.

Respected tribologist Terry Dyson currently recommends RLI, and he does a whole lot of testing.

So by your statement above, I hope you're not suggesting that Amsoil is alone on a limb by selling non-API-certified oils.

Again, RLI's oils are not API-certified either. And big boy Shell recently came out with a non-API-certified oil, too. ....Shell, one of the world's biggest oil companies...

By the way, Dyson Analysis also likes Pennzoil Platinum, right now, too. So it doesn't matter to oil expert Dyson whether he's looking at oils from huge giants or small companies. He picks the best, whether they're API-certified or not.

Of course, whether someone should buy a particular oil like Amsoil or RLI depends on a buyer's car's needs.

Walmart, seller of Mobil, Pennzoil, Havoline, Castrol, etc. went to Amsoil several years back, wanting to carry Amsoil on its shelves too. Amsoil was happy to provide Walmart with a private-label brand, but Walmart wanted the Amsoil brand. As a result, Amsoil turned Walmart down, worried that Walmart would hurt Amsoil's many dealers across the country.

I wish Amsoil had said yes to Walmart, because I'm sure the oil would be a lot cheaper there! [chuckle]

Reply to
Built_Well

If you are only concerned with how well oil lubricates, then choose based on what the "boutique" oil companies and oil experts recommend. If you are also concerned with making sure that your car's emissions system works properly over the long term and doesn't become compromised, then my recommendation is that you follow the advice of the folks who designed and made your car and stick to oil that meets API specifications.

Reply to
Ray O

Ray, your talking to someone who's mind is already made up. He can't listen to facts, he might have to admit he's wrong! He won't thank you for giving him the facts, all he will do is attack and belittle you.

Jack

Reply to
Retired VIP

Store brand oils have usually been the same as Valvoline or Quaker State, except for Wal-mart's, so what makes them "low-end", other than price? And what makes Amsoil "high-end", other than price? CR included Mobil 1 synthetic, and I've never heard of it being considered anything but high-end.

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Maybe because they found all the oils in their 1996 test to be equal in quality, unlike the case in their much more limited test done about a decade earlier with SF oils, where they simply had new and used viscosity tested. In that test, they found that some 5W-30 oils and all but one 10W-40 oil dropped too much in viscosity. At that time, GM had complained to the oil industry about deficiencies in engine oils and said that none of the 10W-40 brands they tested met their quality standards.

Why bother with oil analysis when you do engine teardown inspections? I thought that oil analysis was used as a cheaper, faster alternative to teardowns.

You mentioned that 80% of engine wear occurs at cold start-up, but a maker of electric prelubrication pumps found that an engine equipped with a prelube pump had only 30% less overall wear than an engine that didn't use one. That's a lot lower figure than what makers of miracle oil additives have given. OTOH nobody has accused that pump maker of doing a bad test or scamming people.

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

All the engines in Consumer Reports' test were Chevy 3.4L V-6s. In

1996, were they built to the same tolerances as they had been built long before? If so, why did GM change its oil viscosity recommendations for them and prohibit straight 30 weight in 1996? Please, not the usual excuse about increasing the fuel economy. ;)
Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Can you cite anything showing that synthetic significantly improves gas mileage? If anybody calls 1-800-ASK-MOBIL and asks if Mobil 1 synthetic improves fuel economy, they'll immediately say that it does not. Why should any other synthetics of the same viscosity range be different in this respect?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Which is amazing coming from someone who has only changed the oil himself one time in his life.

Reply to
Mark A

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