New initiate to OIL CHANGE CLUB

I'll have to check out Mobil 1 0W-30's claims some time. A blanket statement like that implies that they have studied the warranty requirements for every automaker, for every engine, for every model year, which is difficult to believe.

"Built_Well" ...

So we are to now understand that you are now the mocking expert on oils since you have read a few articles and oil cans?

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SMS, you're a bit mistaken my good buddy. It's *not* API (the American Petroleum Institute) that limits the phosphorous level from ZDDP to 800 ppm (parts per million) in oil.

You may find this hard to believe, but there are oils that have 1000 ppm and even 1200 ppm of phosphorous from ZDDP that *are* certified by the API at the SM level: API SM certified.

For examples, Mobil 1 0w-40 has 1000 ppm of phosphorous and it enjoys API SM certification. So does Mobil 1 5w-50. Mobil 1 15w-50 even has 1200 ppm , and still it is API SM certified.

It's not API that restricts phosphorous. It's ILSAC in their GF-4 specification.

This also calls into question the authenticity of the email from the so-called Amsoil representative you proffered, since the supposed Amsoil rep also says it's the API that restricts phosphorous to 800 ppm.

If you need proof that the API does not restrict phosphorous to 800 ppm, look at this .pdf document from Mobil 1's web site that shows the ppm level of phosphorous from ZDDP in their oils and also shows the certifications each oil enjoys.

I'll also quote the Mobil 1 site:

"The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than

800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached .PDF table at

And here's the link to the above Mobil 1 quotation:

Gee, for being experts, you guys sure do make a lot of mistakes -- from the extreme dangers of 0w-30 to phantom API regulations [chuckle] :-P

:-P

This will get 20% better gas mileage, too!

The vehicle manufacturer decides what meets the warranty requirements, not Mobil, not Amsoil.

During the warranty period you don't want to give the manufacturer even the slightest pretense on which to deny warranty service. If you do use a non-API oil, or an oil other than what's stated in the manual, then make sure there's no evidence of it on your receipts that you will have to present in the case of any engine failure, whether the failure was related to the oil or not.

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That's good advice, SMS.

By the way, my local Toyota dealer is so busy, they're advertising on TV now that the service department has extended its hours. 7 AM to 7 PM now on some weekdays, and 7 AM to

4:30 PM on Saturdays.

That was the only thing the commercial advertised: longer service hours. Didn't mention a thing about coming in and buying a car--just said we got longer hours now!

Machens Toyota spent money just to let people know they've extended hours.

As vehicle sales (new and used) go down, dealers have to rely more on their service and parts departments to cover their fixed costs. The service department sells labor hours, and within a given facility, there is a limit to how many hours they have available to sell. A way to increase the available hours to sell is to longer hours.