Q: Special tires for '99 Camry LE V6?

Is there any reason why two completely different tire dealers would tell me that my 1999 Toyota Camry LE V6 *MUST* have "special" (and, naturally, more expensive) tires?
The ones currently on it are P205/65R15.
I found a great bargain on a name brand tire, but both dealers insisted that I must go with the expensive ones to the point that one absolutely refused to sell me the less expensive ones! The other dealer made me so suspicious that I left in a hurry, lest I later discover that my car becomes mysteriously damaged (better paranoid than disabled on the highway!).
Neither dealer could give me an adequate reason, and I wasn't born yesterday, but I'm curious whether anyone else has had this situation happen to them, and what they did about it. In other words, did you buy the suggested/expensive tires (if so, what reason did the dealer give you?), or did you go with what you really wanted (and did anything odd happen to your overall driving in either "feel", performance, or safety?)?
Is there ANY reason why I can't use ANY old mfr's tire as long as it matches the aforementioned size?
Thanks for any help!     
----- Bond . . . James Bond
Do not reply via e-mail. The address is phony to prevent spam, etc. Thank you for understanding.
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Please don't post the same message on two different newsgroups unless some time has passed without an answer. Doing so is poor internet etiquette.
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wrote:

    I hardly call sending one small message to two groups     "poor internet etiquette" (i.e., "netiquette").
    Sometimes, one gets different answers from different newsgroups.
    I've been surfing the net for years     and know what I'm doing,     but thank you for your guardianship of the internet     (now, if only you could do something about e-mail spam!). ; )
-----
Bond . . . James Bond
(this is NOT a flame, but an INCREDIBLE simulation!)
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some
Everyone who reads the Camry newsgroup also reads the Toyota newsgroup. It is very poor netiquette. If you also posted in the Honda newsgroup, that would be different.
The length of time you have been surfing has nothing to do with your netiquette.
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You are just another fecking net cop. So, FOAD.

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On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 05:32:59 GMT, do_not snipped-for-privacy@here.com (James Bond 007) wrote:

_______________________________________________ I see no reason why not. Of course, you usually get what you pay for, so better tires cost more than cheap ones.
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I'm sure its the speed load rating of the OEM tires (for which the car suspension was designed). I went to buy cheap $64 each Michelin tires for my '93 4 cyl and was told it took 90H or 91H rated tires and they were $109 each (CostCo). SAM's said they would put lower rated tires on only if I bought 4 of them (and initialed a statemnt on the sales slip) --- they stated the same safty/handling issue. I ended up with properly rated Bridgestones from CostCo at $69 each (195/70x14). They were great tires (sold car). Tires and brakes are too important to try to save a buck by under spec-ing on! Check www.tirerack.com and see what their site says.

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do_not snipped-for-privacy@here.com (James Bond 007) wrote in message

Specifically which type of tires is recommended? Higher speed rating? The specification does call for "H" rated tires, but if you keep the speed below 112 mph, the "S" rated should be OK. Check tirerack.com for suggestions.
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The relationship between speed ratings and your actual speed is often misunderstood. DO NOT think that if you have S rated tired and stay below 112 miles per hour you will OK.
There are a number of factors involved, including air pressure of the tire. A tire that is even slightly under-inflated (which happens to all of us at least occasionally, and happens frequently to most people) will have its maximum safe speed significantly reduced. Also important are ambient temperature, road surface (a rough surface is worse) and other factors that exist in real world outside of the lab.
Remember Firestone tires on the Explorer? They were S/T rated tires (don't remember which), and not H rated like Ford now uses.
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In wrote in message

"Underinflated" by the vehicle manufacturer recommendation OR .... underinflated by the maximum pressure on the tire sidewall? Hmmm?
--
-Philip

"Whatever is a choice will become chosen"
  Click to see the full signature.
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I certainly don't mean under-inflated by the maximum pressure on the sidewall. No one should have a tire inflated to that pressure.
But the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation for tire pressure may not be "safe" either, as we have found out with the Ford Explorer.
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Mark A wrote:

Actually it is not uncommon for vehicle manufacturers to recommend inflating tires to the same pressure as the maximum pressure listed on the side wall.

In the case of the Explorer, it wasn't the pressure recommendation that was unsafe, it was imporperly made tires. Same vehicle, same pressure recommendation, but with Goodyear tires did not have a problem.
Ed
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

FIND me an example. JUST ONE, Ed. I contend the norm is typical for manufacturers to recommend inflation pressures substantially lower than the side wall maximum.

The inflation pressure chosen by Ford for the Explorer was the PRIMARY contributor to tire demise. Saying that the same pressure in another brand of tire (constructed differently) did not result in failures is comparing dissimilar fruit.
Take your Ford Damage Control out of this Toyota forum ... please.
--
-Philip

"Whatever is a choice will become chosen"
  Click to see the full signature.
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"Philip" wrote:

Philips,
There are many vehicles that specify a 35 psi inflation pressure for tires with a 35 psi maximum pressure listed on the sidewall.
I'll pick one Toyota -
1999 Tacoma 4x2 Regular Cab OE Tires - P195/75R14 - Regular Load P series tires, max load at 35 psi max inflation pressure - 1400 lb Recommended pressures 29 / 35
Here is a quick list I gleaned from the tire guide of vehicles that have recommended inflation pressures the same as the max inflation pressure listed on the side wall (many more examples are available, I got tired of copying examples before I finished with the domestic passenger car section):
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon 1996 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon 1999 Dodge Intrepid 1999 Eagle Vision TSi 2000 Ford Mustang S 1995 Sable LS 1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais 1993 Plymouth Acclaim 1991 Pontiac Grand AM SE
Ed
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Odd.... my book calls for 32 psi front and rear for that vehicle, which is less than the sidewall maximum for the OEM tire (35 psi / 1400 lbs). While not substantially lower, 32 is lower than 35. ;-)
--
-Philip

"Whatever is a choice will become chosen"
  Click to see the full signature.
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"Philip" wrote:

I can only go by what the Tire Guide says (which is usually reliable). However, I think if you check the BF Goodrich Tire site, they mirror the 29/35 recommendation. The fact remains, there are plenty of vehicles where the recommended pressure is the same as the maximum pressure listed on the side wall. Another Toyota you could check would be a 1992 Previa All-Trac. Standard tires are standard load P205/75R14. The recommended inflation pressure, according to the Tire Guide, is 35 / 35. I don't have the time to list all the vehicles that have tires inflated to maximum side wall pressure (or even all the Toyotas). You only asked for one, and I have listed 11. Even if I am only 10% accurate, I have met your challenge.
Ed
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"Philip" wrote:

Philip,
There are industry standards for P metric tires. All tires of a given size and type should meet the minimum industry standards no matter how they are constructed. The "evil" tires installed on Explorers were P235/75-15 S105 Tires. The industry standard load inflation table for this tire size follows:
Cold Inf. Pressure Load 20 1543 23 1653 26 1753 29 1852 32 1940 35 2028
This is a tire industry standard, not a Ford standard, or a Firestone standard. A P235/75-15 Tire inflated to 26 psi is rated to carry 1753 psi at it's maximum rated speed. Since the Explorers used "S" rated tires, the maximum safe speed is 112 mph. Explorers are limited to 105 mph top speed by the vehicle's PCM.
The late 90's Explorers were rated for a total maximum rear axle weight of 2950 lb max. This means each rear tire should not be loaded more than 1475 lb. This is well below the maximum safe load of 1753 lb. Even if you derate the tires by 15% for light truck usage (10% is the typical factor used), the tires are still rated to carry 1490 lb. each. A properly loaded Explorer should not cause the failure of a good quality tire of the correct size and type if inflated per the original recommendations (26 psi).
The high failure rate of the Firestone tires, and the non-existent failure rate for the Goodyear tires in the same application make it is clear that the Goodyear and Firestone tires were not equivalent. However, it should also be apparent that the Firestone tires did not meet industry standards. Ford's recommended inflation pressures were not low by industry standards for comparable vehicles. In fact quite a few Toyota models recommended similar pressures for similar or even more severe applications. I don't have time to make you a complete list, but the following vehicles are among light trucks from Japanese manufacturers equipped with P metric tires with a 26 psi inflation pressure recommendation - 2000 Toyota Tundra, 1999 Toyota Tacoma, 1989-1993 Toyota 4Runner, 1994-2000 Nissan Pathfinder, 1996-2000 Nissan Pick-up, 2000 Xterra, virtually all Mitsubishi light trucks sold in the US, 1993-2000 Isuzu Rodeo and some other Isuzu light trucks, 90-92 Daihatsu Rocky.
Does all this have any applications to Toyotas? Yes! If you are driving a Toyota and installed Firestone P235/75-15 ATX tires on the vehicle as an after market replacement tire, be sure to monitor the tire pressure carefully. In congressional testimony it was alleged that ATX tires installed as replacement tires on other vehicles (like 4Runners) also experienced a high failure rate. There are almost 500 compalints against Firetone ATX tires in the NHTSA Database. Some as recent as last November (2003). Many of the complaints were for these tires installed on vehicles other than Ford Explorers. By trying to blame Ford for the bad tires, you are diverting attention away from the primary source of the problem and you may prevent someone from being wary of their Firestone ATX tires.
Regards,
Ed White
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Ford had final say on the inflation pressure recommendation in the Owners Manual and on the door jamb sticker which... was at the very bottom of barely acceptable to Firestone. Your best rationale is the ATX tires were less forgiving when run at pressures that would lower the tire's traction so top heavy SUVs would skid rather that flip suddenly.
--
-Philip

"Whatever is a choice will become chosen"
  Click to see the full signature.
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Philip wrote:

Hey, back off of Ford, I need the big labor union support, ie UAW. I dont care if they kill people, just make sure they vote for me before they die.
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"Philip" wrote:

I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say. This should not be that hard to understand. Either the Firetone ATX tires met tire industry standards and would have been safe when inflated to 26 psi, or they didn't meet industry standards and Firestone should have refused to sell them as P metric tires. If you actually read my previous note, you should see that a recommended a pressure of 26 psi for P metric tires used on a light truck was not unusual. Ford chose the 26 psi pressure because it provided the desired balance of handling, ride, wear, and safety. All vehicle manufacturers do this. If the tires had met industry standards, 26 psi would not have been a problem for a properly loaded and maintained Explorer. I can understand Firestone's reasons for trying to shift the blame. I don't understand yours. I do blame Ford for not adequately monitoring the Firestone tires. Over the years I have owned 4 sets of Firestone tires on a variety of domestic and import vehicles and so far they are batting 0% in my opinion. I can't imagine that Ford did not know that Firestone tires had very low Customer approval ratings, yet until the ATX debacle, they continued to make Firestone one of their chief suppliers. After the Radial 500 and 721 disasters, you would have thought Ford, and all other vehicle manufacturers, would have stayed away from Firestone tires like they carried the plague. On a positive note for Bridgestone (if not the Firestone brand), my Saturn came with Bridgestone tires and they are the best OE tires I have personally ever gotten on a new vehicle (second goes to a set of Goodyears on a Plymouth, and third to Bridgestones on my Datsun 280Z). When I need to buy replacement tires, I will certainly look favorably on Bridgestones. Hopefully I will be able to figure out which tires are really Bridgestones and which are Firestones (or maybe by then there will not be a difference - here's hoping).
Ed
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