Re: ATF, ATF filter, and ATF pan gasket Change Procedure

> I think many of the Toyota models have a label on the > trans dipstick, which says " SERVICE NOT REQUIRED UNDER > NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS". This is pure BS, unless you > want (or more like Toyota wants) the transmission to crater > in under 50K miles.

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BobJ, very interesting post. Lemme say I will give the

2006 Camry /Maintenance Guide/ credit for pointing out that the ATF should be inspected every 30,000 miles (or 3 years) and replaced every 60,000 miles if driving while towing.

But, I think I agree with you. I don't give much credit to the author(s) of the Camry's /Owner's Manual/ for saying that the ATF doesn't need to be changed if you don't drive under the Special Operating Conditions described in the /Maintenance Guide/. And the only Special Operating Condition mentioned in the Maintenance Guide that requires replacing the ATF at 60,000 miles is driving while towing. As you point out, it seems kind of like taking too much of a chance or risk, especially considering the cost of repairing a transmission.

In the Camry's case, it doesn't take much time to simply drain the ATF pan through the pan's convenient drain plug, and filling the pan back up through the ATF filler hole under the hood.

That won't get 100 percent of the old ATF out, but it will get about 40 percent out each time. It's pretty simple to do, and BobJ has convinced me that it's a very good idea.

BobJ, maybe you should help edit the Camry's Owner's Manual :-)

Reply to
Built_Well
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Car manufacturers' notion of "life of car" is quite different from that of many owners. Given only a portion of the fluid drains out IMO it should be done every 15K miles and the strainer with it, if not more often.

So what's the state of the ATF in your Camry?

Reply to
johngdole

I do this too. It's easy and cheap to replace that 40 percent by just a drain and fill. Do it regularly (10 k) and you will replace most of the fluid to give the trans a long healthy life. I live in a hot climate. It's even easier than an oil change so why not.

Reply to
RT

Earlier I wrote that the total fill for the 2006 Camry's AT fluid is 9.3 quarts. That's true for the V6 Camry which uses the U151E transmission, but the 4-cylinder 2006 Camry uses the U250E transmission, which has a total fill of 8.5 quarts.

If just doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill, just 3.7 quarts is required for both the U151E and the U250E, because most of the rest of the ATF is in the torque converter, in the AT oil cooler (the short length of pipe underneath the radiator), and in the hoses which connect to the AT oil cooler.

The 2 hoses on my Camry leading from the transmission to the AT oil cooler are actually labeled with the words "AT Oil." Toyota helpin' out to simplify things :-)

I don't think I'll ever do anything more than a drain-and-fill of the ATF, though. When I crawled under the chassis to take a look at the ATF pan, I saw that several of the 18 bolts are recessed away in hard-to-reach awkward spots. You'd have to be plastic man to reach those bolts or have really flexible tools.

Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? I guess after 20 years it might make sense...

Reply to
Built_Well

Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about using the drain plug?

The U250E, like many other U-series transmission, suffer from shift problems. IMO the older A-series, while dirtier, was more reliable. After driving highway speeds and decelerating the U250E may exhibit a harsh 5-4 shift.

Get a new shift solenoid free before the powertrain warranty expires!!

T-SB-0033-08 April 15, 2008 Harsh 5-4 Downshift on Deceleration

Reply to
johngdole

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The ATF hoses don't come into play if you're just doing a regular drain-and-fill, but they do come into play if you want to drain /all/ of the ATF out, including the almost 60 percent that's in the torque converter.

A regular drain-and-fill that gets out 40 percent of the ATF should suffice, though :-)

Thanks for mentioning the solenoid. I will consider getting the free replacement, but I really haven't had any down-shifting problem with the car.

Do you have a copy or link to the TSB?

Reply to
Built_Well

It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets, or clean the transmission pan (it is not called an "ATF" pan) itself under normal conditions any more than you would drop the engine oil pan.. I just did it on our Escort because it doesn't have a transmission pan drain plug, but your Camry has a handy dandy drain plug, which makes dropping the transmission pan unnecessary. If the transmission pan has an FIPG, there is a pretty good chance that you would end up with a transmission leak when you're done.

Reply to
Ray O

A dealer will not install a new part for free just because a TSB is issued. The vehicle has to exhibit or meet the conditions described in the TSB before any warranty work will be performed.

Reply to
Ray O

Even removing the cooler lines won't get the fluid out of the converter.

The only way to drain a converter while it's installed is to remove it's drain plug (IF it has one most don't) or to drill a hole in the converter and drain it, then use a SHORT rivet or screw to seal the hole. That isn't a good idea in most cases since it is VERY easy to damage the internals unless you know EXACTLY where you can drill.

Also a TSB is NOT a recall. It is only a notice to mechanics to look at that part as a possible source of the stated problem. Basically the manufacturer is telling them "hey we think this part may be the cause of this failure, so replace it if you see this problem"

It is NOT a free repair either. It is ONLY done if your vehicle is exhibiting the stated problem AND needs the repair. You will still get billed for it.

Reply to
Steve W.

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Well, you're right, Ray. That's why I said after 20 years...

And I'm nearly certain it's not an FIPG (formed-in-place or foam-in-place) gasket. Instead you buy the gasket at the dealership for $16.

A challenge with the 18 bolts is they each require seal packing that must be applied within a certain time limit. Plus 5 or 6 of the bolts are really hard to get to.

But as I mentioned, this is a job that you might want to do after 20 years, not regularly.

Reply to
Built_Well

Sure, even some "recalls" would require inspecting things like timing belt date code etc. But a lot of owners out there don't realize they have problems and never got the free parts they should get. They think some rough shifts are just "normal."

That's why always read the TSBs (try google) and check carefully if your car exhibits the described problem. After all, if you don't complain it doesn't get fixed!!

Reply to
johngdole

Calling a "fluid exchange machine" a "flush machine" is false advertising.

The "fluid exchange machines" are accurate to within 95% and it only exchanges old for new fluids. But it doesn't clean the pan for you. I don't think people use "flush" machines anymore. Don't jam the valve bodies with one.

Reply to
johngdole

How many 20 year old transmission screens (actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need replacement? I haven't seen any. Have you ever even seen a transmission strainer?

FIPG = formed-in-place gasket.

I've mentioned several times that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but you do not have to take my word and experience for it. Read the owner's manual and factory repair manual and see if you can find any recommendation from the folks who built the car to ever change the strainer as part of a preventative maintenance procedure.

I don't know why you are so insistent on changing the strainer. In close to

40 years of working on cars, I have never seen a transmission fail because the strainer wasn't changed. For 15 of those years, that included talking to over 100 dealers who worked on hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

If changing the engine oil or getting lug nuts tightened properly is a challenge, then dropping the pan, changing the strainer, and getting to back together without trashing your $3,000 transmission is going to be a HUGE challenge. On a 20 year old vehicle, you will likely snap several bolts off and have to drill and tap the transmission case, and if that is not done correctly, the transmission is trashed. If the magnets are placed in the incorrect position, they can block one or more fluid tubes, which could trash the transmission. If the gasket slips out of position or the bolts are not tightened correctly, the fluid could leak out, which would trash the transmission. In other words, why take so many chances to trash the transmission to do something that is unnecessary?

Reply to
Ray O

I agree.

Reply to
Ray O

Ray, you wrote that you've [quote]"mentioned several times that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but you do not have to take my word and experience for it."

You also wrote, "How many 20 year old transmission screens (actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need replacement? I haven't seen any."

Ray, my man, can you point out where I stated that the transmission filter requires changing? Why are you implying to the group that I have ever said that?

You seem to be putting words in my mouth so that you can pretend to come along and correct something I said, which I never said. Odd that you would feel the need to do that.

And it sounds like you're blowing a gasket, too [chuckle]. Try to relax a little more, my friend :-)

I've been busy all weekend, but finally had a chance to catch up with the thread.

Chill out, Ray :-)

Reply to
Built_Well

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Remember Ray, we're all just having fun here.

Reply to
Built_Well

I guess I'm just a wannabe teacher who is trying to teach you a few things about your car. When you mention the same thing more than once after the "lesson" was presented, I get the impression, correctly or incorrectly, that perhaps my lesson didn't sink in, or that you don't believe that the information in the lesson is correct.

While you did mention in another post that you probably would not attempt more than a drain and refill, you did post this later:

I was merely pointing out that even after 20 years, it would not make sense to replace the strainer.

Reply to
Ray O

Well, I'm not going to argue with you. The passage of mine you quoted just now shows I did not say replacing the ATF strainer was required.

I'll just end now by saying you do give good Toyota advice.

Reply to
Built_Well

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