#3 retard on Distributor cam

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:55:17 -0400, "Peter" scribbled this interesting note:

Have a good read:

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

It is a 4 degree (crank degrees) retard on No 3, to compensate for #3 running a bit hotter cause the in-shroud oil cooler blocked / preheated it's cooling air. It is needed with the in-shroud oil cooler. If you have a doghouse oil cooler, then you don't need it. The distributors for the non-doghouse engines, had this retatd incorporated in them.

Bill, '67 Bug.

only retard on #3 I know of is Jan.....

:D

Short Bus Special, she says.

hehehe

Jan

Thanks for the link. I have been reading but, so far, I have not read much that I have not heard before. Much of it is not convincing as to "why", except for comments made by John Connolly. It seems to me that people are repeating what they have heard, as fact, or over quoting what they have read. There is comment in official VW manuals on this stuff, but nothing particularly explanatory. In fact there seems to be a whole lot of confusion over which year models are affected!

Anyone have anything concrete to fill in the gaps?

................"repeating what they have heard" ???

.........Why don't you do your own research and then share your original thoughts with us. I promise that I won't repeat your findings as my own but will instead give you credit for your original thoughts that you obtained from your own direct observations. You could become the next Bob Hoover or Jake Raby or John Connolly or.............maybe NOT!

.........Fill in your own gaps.

Wow, don't be so hard on him. There's still hope. He could always buy a sawsall and cut up his bug into a baja and make a website about it and become the next Shaggie. :-D WHO AMONG US HAS THE BRAVERY!?!?

hate to say it, but i'm with Tim....MANY people have responded to his post here (and i believe one on STF?) but they are met with an attitude about it....if this guy is so sure what is *NOT* the answer then he must know what the answer is....or maybe he has a desired outcome and any answers that don't match are "hearsay" or "repeating what they heard"......but of course *anyone* here that offers up info is going to be repeating what they have heard or read, because i don't think anyone here was an engineer for vw back in the early days...maybe we should hunt Lauren up and introduce her and steve, they seem to be a great match....

------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004

In my experience, much of what people have to say is handed down from one source or another. In the case of specific information, when it comes from a verifiable reference, it can be trusted, to a degree. I have read a fair bit of people comments on this subject going back nine years and I have seen little that can be verified, leaving us in the realms of virtual rumour. Very few offer more than a "check the official manuals" but, when I do, there is very little on the subject. The Type 1 Bentley manual for 66-69 barely mentions it as "on some engines" but does not explain it. The 70-79 manual does not appear to mention it at all, despite 70 being the last year for the old fan shroud (except for 1200's). So far, I have not found any reference to it in other official workshop manual that I have, although I have seen it on VW distributor data sheets. But, again, these only state that it exists and sometimes in contradiction with other official VW publications. I don't have access to the 61-65 Bentley, right now, so it would be nice if someone could check that one out for me, as the retard was supposed to have been introduced for the 65 model year. I would hope that someone has one of those VW bulletins that usually explain the why's and wherefores very well.

John Connolly actually tested distributors, which is a pretty sure-fire method of identifying what does and does not have the retard, but still may not fill in all the gaps. He also has similar opinions on the subject as did Gene Berg, which make a great deal of sense. Much of the debate has, in the past, revolved around the 009, so the research done by others does not always cover the area which I have questioned. Anyone who can test their original distributor and submit the results with the VW (or Bosch) part number, would go a long way to disproving (not proving) some of the opinions or theories. Meanwhile, anyone who can submit the reference material that can knock this on the head, would be very much appreciated.

Sorry, I wasn't aware I was answering posts with an "attitude". I will be more careful in future. Sometimes when you write in 'straight talk' it comes out 'pushy' but in most case this would be unintentional. I did get a 'baptism by fire' when I first really started to post on RAMVA and I took it all the wrong way and made it worse. Anyway, all I am trying to do is sift through the facts. I am doing a whole heap of other research on the subject, as side from my questions posted here. I don't intend construe the facts to my own personal opinions on the matter, even though that can be difficult. You already know some of my thoughts on this issue, from an earlier post, which simply raised my interest in the subject once again. I realise the subject may bore many who feel they have been here before, so forgive me, my interest is genuine, simply because I would like to know.

Ah, yes. An excellent example of "ad nauseam".

RT

LOL !

...............Like I've said before Chris. Whenever there is agreement between me and you or with Travis (gasp!), I start wondering whether there's something wrong.......very wrong. Like maybe I'm going to turn into a NASCAR watching, banjo playing, pork skin eating, iced tea drinking southerner or something.

Don't worry Peter, Tim has proven time and time again all hes good at is useless fill. I haven't seen him give any correct or useful advise in this newsgroup meant to help people with their aircooled VW's like it was intended for.

Mario Vintage Werks restorations

you know where to find me Chris...

sometimes there are things that are obviously not the answer to the question that someone has and it can be frustrating trying to figure out what it is and just getting the same responses telling you its one thing that you know it;s not cause you already checked that...

i have no idea what this post is in reference to... i just commented cause Chris drug me into this...

that is great....we all like to learn, and we sometimes pick something that isn't readily available knowledge(i guess its the challenge?)....i hope you find all you are seeking, really, but about all most of us can offer is what we have "heard" from trusted mechanics/friends/"gurus", or read in some place, and may not be able to provide a link or even page number in a book....in the "vw world" there are also alot of things passed along for litterally years, that are "common knowledge" but doesn't mean they are completely factual....good luck in your search, and please make the info available for future inquisitive minds...

------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004

yes...i do.......

alot of time it is wording....really...you know from experience that i am not the only one that has pointed out that you come across as a "know it all" when you are asking for help...i don't fault you for it lauren, but i do give you a heaping helping of crap every chance i get...LOLOLOL

LOL....i saw a connection and was hoping you were lurking........i see you were....good to see you Lauren....

------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004

i beg to differ Mario....Tim does help out the people looking for info here....you may not see it, or you may not agree with what he says, but that doesn't change that he does indeed help others out, and i'll go further to say that he usually only offers info that he knows is correct and verifiable, either in print or by his own experiences....there have been huge gaps in time when you did not even make a post to this group Mario, much less provide usefull "fill"...you have become very active in this group, and i see that as somewhat of a positive thing, because those here looking for help can always benefit from more minds with more experiences...But please don't make bullshit statements like you did above when they are based on your dislike for the poster, especially when your "dislike" for him has been reported by you to be that he says things about you that are untrue.....your statement about him was definitely "untrue"....now....help out those that need the help and play nice....and find me a ragtop roof section....

------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004

ok I'm sorry I'll go stand in the corner now

Mario

I'm just glad we got that whole hood emblem thing settled. :-D