issues with a 74 autstick and starting

maybe someone had installed a starter booster and then took it offline? You are not talking about a relay right?

well i am not sure what a 'starter booster' would be ...

the solenoid peice i am talking about .. is like the old ford solenoids that would be mounted on the firewall of the car ... since they did not have a solenoid mounted on the starter ...

there is a wire ran to one of the bigger terminals from the battery .. and then from the other large terminal there is a wire ran down to the main terminal on the starter .. and another one ran to one of the autostick modules ... (that i think has to do with engaging the clutch peice for the autostick, but not for sure)

This is what you're starter wiring looked like originally (minus the seatbelt interlock):

E-17 is the tranny Neutral switch.

D is the Ignition switch.

The Ford "relay" was often used to get sufficient current to the starter solenoid to pull it in. You say it isn't hooked up, but I wonder...

You can find the instructions for bypassing the seatbelt interlock on this page of my web site:

Section But before digging into the Interlock try these tests:

Jumper the starter solenoid underneath like this:

sure brakes are on and shift in Neutral!If key is On, the engine may start. That will tell you if the starter is OK.

Next, pull the Black plug off the back of the Ignition switch. The back of the plug (wiring side) will look like this:

a jumper (aka paperclip) from #50 to #30.If the starter runs, you know that the transmissionNeutral safety switch AND the starter AND the InterlockAND (perhaps) the Ford relay are all OK. If all those items are OK, suspicion falls on the Ignition switch.

If easier, reverse the order of the tests. Post back any clues you find and we'll go from there.

Speedy Jim

"I have no use for a car which has more spark plugs than a cow has teats!" Henry Ford, when advised that Chevrolet was introducing a 6-cylinder engine.

hmm, thanks for that info ... the ignition switch has already been replaced, that is what i thought it was at first ...

the ford relay has been replaced as well ...

on those type of relays .. there are 4 terminals ... 2 large ones (one on each side) and two small ones (in the center between the two large ones) .. the only terminals that have wires hooked too them are the 2 large ones ... one side from the battery, then out that side to the starter and to a peice for the autostick

on jumping the starter, have done that already. and it starts fine .. even when it 'wont start' with the key ... i can jump it off and it starts right up ...

i haven't tried to jump it from the plug off the ignition tho .. will have to try that ... have not checked the neutral safey switch at all yet .. forgot about that peice ...

it doesn't seem to have a set pattern on when it will and won't start up ... when i get up there friday i am sure it will start right up ... so will let it run for a while and then see if it will stop and start again ... (it is a pain working on a bug that is 100 miles away) ...

so other then the information i gave right now, i have little more information till friday when i am up there, ... at that time i can post my findings from jumpering off the switch plug .. and will retry the starter again to make sure .. and snap a pic of the ford relay to show what wires are hooked up to it...

Yes it sounds like someone used that external solenoid as a starter booster. Like Speedy said, you have to check, clean and tighten all connections at various spots along that circuit. The ign switch could be faulty. Or a loose neutral safety switch plug. It almost sounds like that solenoid is still in the circuit! 8^)

Somewhere there is a drop in current or faulty component! I would suspect that external solenoid!

ok where exactly is the neutral saftey switch located on the chassis? so i can check and clean it's connection as well ... and is there a proper way to check to see if the switch is good or bad? (ohms, etc) ...

also, curious .. how would the ford solenoid normally be wired up for a 'booster' ... so i can make for sure thats what it is doing there and that it is hooked up right ...

The switch is up front on the nosecone. There are 4 wires. The 2 you are concerned with are the heavier ones.

The switch contacts should measure less than 2-3 Ohms as a rough guess.

Jim

If the 2 small posts aren't connected to anything, then it won't do a thing.

Here is a how-to on the installation:

(from another source)

Jim

hmmm ok thanks that will help some ... this ford relay isn't hooked up then ... it may have been at one time but was disconnected partially ... the wire that it says to put on the S terminal ... is going back to the solenoid on the factory starter ... so will have to sort through it .. and check the other stuff as well ...

i am sure i will have some more questions friday once i am there and able to look at it more .. but thanks for the advice so far.

scratch that last message ... now i understand how it is supposed to wire up ... it is for sure this one isn't wired that way ...

So this switch is on the transmission nose cone (FRONT of it) LEFT SIDE IIRC. You can access the NSS from underneath the car, but don't mistake it for the other switches on the trans. I think that there are 3-4 total switches on your auto stick trans (reverse lights, NSS, temperature sensor?). The important NSS wires should be thicker (usually red and red/white IIRC) and you can temporarily connect the 2 wires together to eliminate this switch being a problem.

Been way too many years/decades since I have seen an autostick running, so I might have made some mistakes. Please someone correct me.

okay .. i am up in arkansas now looking at her bug ... bypassing the seatbelt interlock at the solenoid didn't resolve the issue ...

on the ford relay .. there are only 3 wires hooked to it ... one wire running from the battery to one of the large posts ... and on the large post on the other side ... the larger red and black striped wire has two eye terminals on it and is bolted to the other side .. nothing else is hooked up to it ..

i can go to the starter it's self and jumper from the main power wire to the solenoid terminal and it will turn over ... and start (motor has always started up quick) ...

one thing i noticed .. while it was started i could not put the car into gear (this is an autostick remember) ...

i am going to go back out in just a moment and short out the two terminals on the plug for the ignition switch and see if it tries to start there ... if it doesn't start there .. then it sounds like it may be the neutral saftey switch? ...

any other hints or ideas? .. i will check this a few times before leaving to head back to louisiana later this afternoon ... hopefully can get it figured out before leaving ... if not .. looks like i will be back up here on another day in the next month...

ok, i short out the two terminals on the ignition switch plug and get nothing ... so switch isn't the problem ... and starter / solenoid isn't either ...

Good sleuthing!

Jumper the Neutral switch. Should have heavy Red wire and a Red/Blk:

Speedy Jim

ok i jumpered the neutral switch ... and it still wouldn't turn over .. so i pulled the ignition switch plug again .. and now i can get it to turn over when jumpering it .. so looks like the ignition switch is bad aslo ... its a brand new one .. heh quality part lol ...

while trying to see if i could get it to start since it hasnt been ran in a bit (prob a few weeks) .. it wouldn't kick ... but i noticed the fuelt filter that is in line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump has hardly any fuel in it ... it's a pretty big clear filter .. i think it might need a smaller one in it's place ... not sure if the pump can pull that much pressure to suck the fuel back through the line ...

what is a source for a quality ignition switch? ... this is the smooth body one .. not with the little tab sticking off one side at the end of the lip ...

knowing my mom it may just be dry on gas to so going to pick up a few gallons and bring back to the house then disc the filter and see if i can get it to flow without it there and fill it up manually ...

getting a little closer to having it up again .. oh the joys of working on em!

while trying to see if i could get it to start since it hasnt been ran in a bit (prob a few weeks) .. it wouldn't kick ... but i noticed the fuelt filter that is in line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump has hardly any fuel in it ... it's a pretty big clear filter .. i think it might need a smaller one in it's place ... not sure if the pump can pull that much pressure to suck the fuel back through the line ...

what is a source for a quality ignition switch? ... this is the smooth body one .. not with the little tab sticking off one side at the end of the lip ...

knowing my mom it may just be dry on gas to so going to pick up a few gallons and bring back to the house then disc the filter and see if i can get it to flow without it there and fill it up manually ...

getting a little closer to having it up again .. oh the joys of working on em!

scratch the part about getting it to run .. i need a sign that says pay attention .. when i was jumping it to get it to start i didnt do another jumper over to the ignition ... so all i need now is a quality ignition switch ...

There are no quality ignition switches! :-(

However, most of the switch failures are caused by overheating (internally) due to the high current drawn by the starter solenoid. OhOh! There you go again!

When you are out picking up a new switch (be sure to get the correct one as it changed mid-way thru the '74 model), pick up a Bosch generic relay to use for the "hard start" circuit. That will replace the clunky Ford relay.

If you get stuck, e-mail me as it may be faster than Usenet.

Speedy Jim