More Newbie Oil Changing Q -- deeper into procedures

A couple weeks ago, several of you were kind enough to give this plucky little flying squirrel a primer on how to handle the oil that I will shortly be taking out of my 71 bus without making a great big mess.

Last night I stumbled across an article, "TULZ - Part Seven," by Bob Hoover at

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He's very precise in his directions. He doesn't want you to just change the oil, but to clean the goop out of the sump, too (see his article).

To do it right per him, one needs to track down the good gaskets and sump studs and drain plug washers. Gathering the correct parts looks like a chore and a half. Should I fret about:

  1. "high-compliant oil-proof gaskets"? Hoover writes, "To insure a leak-free [sump] assembly you need to start with all of the surfaces being flat and clean then use high-compliant oil-proof gaskets, non-hardening sealant and the proper torque values for the six nuts. Things go awry right off the bat because typical sump gaskets sold today are permeable cardboard instead of resin-coated non-permeable gasket material. In plain language, they are unsuitable as oil gaskets; they leak. That means you have to spray the cardboard jobbies with a non-hardening sealant. Most folks don't. So the sump drips oil. So they over-torque the nuts which bends the hell out of the sump plate and the flange of the oil pickup screen and after that, it leaks even worse. Go figger."

  1. "Crushable copper washers"? He writes, "The other thing folks do wrong is to NOT replace the crushable copper washers on the sump studs and drain plug. The copper washers are designed to do two things. The first is to form an oil tight seal, the second is to prevent the drain plug & acorn nuts from coming loose. Crushable copper washers are a one-time-use item. On installation, when torqued to the proper value, it gets crushed. The crush is what keeps the oil in and the drain plug or acorn nut(s) from coming loose. Re-use the copper washers and you have to over-torque them to form an oil tight seal and by that time there isn't any 'crush' left, meaning things are going to come loose. Loose acorn nuts, you got a leaky, messy sump plate. But a loose sump plug can cost you an engine."

If it is good practice to use those parts, then where's the good place to get them from? Hoover suggests that the crushable washers can be obtained from a Toyota dealership . . . is there someplace online that's more convenient? And where does a fellow find the good-kind gaskets?

Or -- is he just being overly-fussy? Are there alternate, just as good ways to put things together after pulling the sump plate and getting the sludge out?

BTW - I have a 1776 engine. If that makes a difference.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot
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Fussy is good though. ;) It does have a huge effect on how much "evidence" your vehicle leaves behind on the parking lot as well.

If you order an oil gasket set from aircooled.net (and I assume most will come like this, I just have proof of experience from those guys), it comes with all the neccessary copper washers to replace the whole set. Not sure the gaskets are up to mister hoover's specs, so I smear mine with a little high temp silicone to try and keep things sealed.

Works well for me, my oil drain is the cleanest spot on the engine. :p

Reply to
Seth Graham

Hi.Maybe Hoover does get some what anal about oil change procedure.Like Saint Muir.However the jist of their raps is that OIL IS IMPORTANT and please do right by your ACVW.That being said,CIP's and WCM are both very reputable places to get oil change kits.I would stay away from some of the ones at discount stores.Thats what Mr. Hoover was most likely ranting against.Just don't over tighten the sump plate,use new crush washers and I'm afraid you are going to have to accept the occaisional ,lonely drip(but keep an eye on them).ACVW's are like old Harleys,if they don't drip they're out of oil.Steve

Reply to
Ilambert

Hey, thanks!

In case no one was looking, I'm such a newbie that I don't know was CIP and WCM stand for!

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" wrote

California Import Parts:

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West Coast Metric:

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Reply to
Scott H

Well, as Bob sez, you are the Mechanic In Charge. If you don't mind having a weepy sump-plate, then don't fuss with that stuff. Your choice.

If you DO mind, you now have some info on WHY it might be leaking and what you can do about it. So you can make your own decision. It's your garage floor after all.

Naturally, crush-ring technology won't work at all on a 1776. (Just kidding)

But seriously, evaluate everything Bob or any of the rest of us internet yahoos write solely on the merits of the information content. If there's something you don't understand, ask about it until you do. Then you can make informed decisions.

What works for someone else may not work for you. There are inevitably a host of unstated assumptions that make the situations different.

Personally, I never remove the sump plate for oil changes. It stays put and does not leak. I also don't replace the crush-ring until I notice leakage. So far, I haven't had the plug get loose. But if it ever does, it will be the consequence of my own decision. Because for my car, _I_ am the Mechanic in Charge.

.... What was the question again?

Reply to
Max Welton

Mike: One thing to remember while working on your bus is that you will not be able to count on the procedures in the manuals to give you all the information you will need. For you will not only be conducting your own maintenance but fixing and repairing some 30 years of possible abuse and neglect. Take for example the simple task of removing your sump plate and checking to see if it is flat. If your bus was new and the proper procedures had been followed your sump plate might be flat, but its not new and chances are after placing the plate on a flat surface you will see that it is not. I am sure there are a lot of different ways to smooth out the plate, personally I prefer using honing stones when smoothing out metal seating surfaces. Whatever way you decide to do it doesn't really make a difference as long as the end result is a good sealing surface. I think this is where that old saying comes in "You are the mechanic in charge"

Reply to
Steve

...you can use either aviation permatex which has a little brush to coat the gaskets...or copper garket coat spray. whis is an aresol spray...actuallt there are other products...but either of these works well look for them at your local auto parts store. Being a VW owner you will eventually find other gaskets that benefit from treatmeny with these products...

...Gareth

Reply to
Gary Tateosian

Sigh. Is it okay for consenting adults to have sex on the first date?

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

....sure but why wait till you go out on a date????

.....Gareth

Reply to
Gary Tateosian

not true...a properly sealed engine does *not* leak....

------------------- Chris Perdue

*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"
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reply take your PANTS off
Reply to
Chris Perdue

I'm old-fashioned.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

Chris,of course you are right.Properly sealed engines don't leak.But in the real world it has been my experience that they do sometimes.ACVW's,Harley's,MG's-----They all tend to mark their spaces.But only if you drive them.And it's no big deal(within limits).Like fheem,it's part of the deal.Steve

Reply to
Ilambert

Hey Mike. I usually pick up an "oil strainer gasket" from Napa. Or, alternatively, I get an oil change kit from my local VW shop. Both come with six copper washers for the nuts that hold the plate and screen on, and a big copper washer for the drain plug. I replace them all each time. BTW, anybody here from Albuquerque, New Mexico? I get alot of parts from Foreign Aide. Great shop! They do excellent work and sell many good parts at reasonable prices. Anyway, good look staying clean during your change. ~Anthony '73 Std.

Reply to
Anthony

i agree....i have never bought a vw that did not leak...but i usually put that top on my list of "fix-its"....

------------------- Chris Perdue

*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"
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reply take your PANTS off
Reply to
Chris Perdue

not usually - you just don't know each other well enough at that point. you could wind up regretting it.

Reply to
mez

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