Paint stripping or not?

I have read a ton on here about stripping paint off to metal or not for a total respray etc.
1. First method mentioned is chemical strip to metal
2. Second methed mentioned is blasting - plastic, walnut shells, sand etc 3. Third method - sanding pads etc 4. Some even noted NOT to remove to metal but to sand/wet sand the current paint etc to get it ready for new paint
Questions:
1. What do you all think is the best method? 2. Where would I find a quality book/manual for stripping/preparing body for new paint on any of the above methods? 3. Assuming that #2 is the 'best' method/way to go - how would you proceed on finding a shop to complete this process?
Thanks - a newbie looking for some help
matt
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Chemical stripping. Less chance of a beginner warping the panels and you get to go from the ground up. You have no idea when the old paint may decide to finally give it up.

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Whatever you do, strip to the metal... I'm told that the old paint (containing lead) is different to the new synthetic paint so there is a chance of pealing or something like that.
I had the frame sandblasted and then a layer of sinc burned on, finally it was sprayed 2 times altough once was enough. The body was sent to a bodyrepair shop and they sanded it to the metal, sprayed for about 6 or 8 layers on it (different primers and double colour for extra dept or so)
Sandblasting is relatively cheap but watch out for blasting holes in the body panels!! I'm not familiar with chemical stripping, sounds good if you have the time... but then again you should take your time restoring a classic car.
HTH Roger

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Strip it to bare metal, with chemicals (cheapest) or media blasting. You *NEVER* know what you'll find under that old paint! Go to our Webshots albums to see our 1958 as it is stripped, and what we *found*
Heres the links..........
album one here http://community.webshots.com/album/44561848CIrDCh album two here http://community.webshots.com/album/192965834DSKVig
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WOW two things you went to the trouble of striping it to bare metal then maaco paints it I feel for you. truly
I'm sending restorations out to be chemically dipped to strip and derust(is that a word?) I have done a lot of cars and can tell you nothing beats clean metal.
Mario
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Kafertoys wrote:

Where do you do this? Do they also dip the parts in a primer when clean? What kind of primer?
(there's a reason I'm asking this, not exactly VW related - see thread on rec.autos.tech if you care)
thanks,
nate
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Chem Strip in Burlington NC Do they also dip the parts in a primer when

name of the primer but I think it's a zink base. I will have pics of the next car that comes back.
Mario

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Kafertoys wrote:

I'm a-gonna have to check that out. Especially if it's a zinc primer. That sounds like the cat's behind for what I need to do (I have some NOS fenders for one of my "other" cars - which are notorious for rusting out in an inaccessable area behind a brace which is part of the fender itself and would be fairly difficult to remove and replace without destroying the fender.
nate
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Its Carolina Chem Strip 348 MacArthur ln Burlington NC 27217 # 584 5613 ask for jimmy
If you have them do it, let me know I will try to get you my price on stripping.
Mario
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Kafertoys wrote:

Thanks, I appreciate it, it may be a couple weeks or longer, I don't even have the car home yet, but I will have to do something about it this winter.
nate
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Yep. It's scarey. My bug's got so much old paint I'm afraid Jimmy Hoffa's under there.
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Having stripped two cars now chemically and with the help of a grinder with a 36 grit disk I would say if the existing paint is solid and there is no rust bubling through there is no reason to go through all that work. Just scuff and shoot a good sealer or sandable primer over it. --Dan E
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I've been doing thios for 30 years so here's my 2 cents: If it's original paint (not likely on an old car) do not strip it. Seal it with epoxy primer & paint it. If it's been painted strip it with chemicals, media blasting, dipping, or an air buffer w/sponge pad (or a locked D.A.) & 80 grit. The method depends on several things. My preference is the air buffer; however, some paint will just gall up the sandpaper (usually laquer) so that method gets canned. Then you go to chemicals; "Aircraft Remover" brand is the best. Do small areas at a time (a couple of square feet) in a well ventilated area & with rubber gloves. Apply a healthy layer of the chemical with a brush & wait for the paint to bubble or soften & scrape it off with a bondo spreader or wide putty knife. Usually it takes more than one application (or several) to cut through several layers of paint. Once down to metal or the last coat of primer wash the surface clean & sand with a D.A. (unlocked) & 80 grit to clean metal. This leaves blasting or dipping. I left these for last 'cause you have to get someone else to do it so it costs more. If the car has no major rust (or you're only doing the outside) media blasting is the way to go. If there *is* major rust dipping will get it out the best, but the car has to be *completely* dis-assembled. Just remember dipping may get it down to bare metal in places you can't prime back to prevent further rusting (If the place dips it in zink primer afterward that's fantastic - scuff the zink & epoxy over that). Once down to bare metal sand it with the 80 grit & prime it with epoxy before doing *anything* else. You can even bondo over the epoxy as it sticks better to the epoxy than bare metal (& it actually feathers better to). From there the finish work is a whole 'nother subject... ;^P HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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.............There are so many spot welded pieces in a bug body that have overlapping joints, I'd guess that the corrosion in those joints would be untreatable after dipping. Even if those areas are sealed with primer, there's enough flexing & vibration to break those seals over time, I'd bet.
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overlapping joints, I'd guess that the corrosion in those joints would be untreatable after dipping. Even if those areas are sealed with primer, there's enough flexing & vibration to break those seals over time, I'd bet. ******** Yes that's the problem with dipping, but if there's rust in those joints then dipping is the only way to get it (if not all of it) out. Going back with seam sealer will help protect them from moisture & keep the rust from spreading (so fast), & it's flexable. Of course the *only* way to be sure you get *all* the rust out of the joints is to *completely* cut the body apart (drilling out all the spot welds), blast or dip the parts to bare metal, & weld it back together. But if you dip to strip & then dip it in zink primer, then epoxy prime everything you can & seam seal all the joints you'll have something that will last for decades - as long as the rust between the joints isn't too bad in the first place. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
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Exactly the help I was looking for....Thank you. BTW could you write me a 20-30 page manual on Finish work?
lol Matt
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I wrote this for another forum; should cover most of your questions.
On a good paint job (which are all I do :-) I would spend a minimum of $400 in materials prepping that car (not including paint). I use only catalyst-hardened primers & paints, starting with PPG epoxy primer & building up imperfections for blocking with Sikkens high-build primer (if needed). Then another coat of epoxy as a sealer before spraying a *minimum* amount of basecoat color(s) (just enough to cover well) & topping off with Sikkens clear. I keep buildup to a minimum to minimize chipping. These paint jobs will last for at least 20 years if the car is parked outside; probably 50 or more if taken care of. Just wanted to prepare you for the sticker shock when you start buying materials. Of course, you can cut alot of corners, & you most likely won't use the high-dollar Sikkens stuff. But it appears that you plan to have someone else shoot the paint, so ask them about sealing it with epoxy, as it will minimixe shrinking & make the paint stick better. Use base-coat clear-coat to guard against UV rays (the clear keeps it from fading). Here again, the paint & clear cost may be higher than a soild color, but it'll be worth it. If you want to do it right, take EVERYTHING off of the car that you can; all trim, door handles, lights, etc. Sand it THOROUGHLY, all the way up & into the corners & crevices. CLEAN it THOROUGHLY with a good "wax & grease remover": wipe it on with a clean cloth & wipe it dry with another clean cloth - don't let it air dry. Do it twice to make sure you get all the wax & grease off of the surface. DO IT A DOZEN TIMES BEFORE PAINTING IF YOU'VE BEEN USING SILICONE ANY WHERE AROUND THE VEHICLE. Well maybe not a dozen, but AT LEAST three. Silicone will travel through the air for hundreds of feet, & make the paint "fisheye" (seperate from the surface leaving small craters). Well, those paragraphs kinda get ahead of us here... Anyway, here is the basic sequence you'll want to use. 1) Metal work. This means hammering out/working the dents, changing parts like fenders, & lining up all the body panels (hood, fenders, doors, & trunklid). A good rule of thumb when working metal is to use two blows instead of one; that is, work out the dents slowly so as to not stretch the metal. Start with lining the doors to fit the body at the 1/4 panel & around the opening. Then line the fenders to the doors, & the hood to the fenders. 2) Stripping. You may not need to, but probably will 'cause most older cars have alot of paint on them & it's not a solid base to shoot over. The DA I mentioned before - if you find a *real* DA that locks down - will usually do a good job of taking it down to bare metal using 80 grit in the lock-down mode. I use an 8-inch air buffer & 80 grit most of the time. If that dosen't work (if the paint is too soft & fills up the paper too soon) use a chemical stripper. I use "Aircraft Stripper" (brand name). 3) Filler. This means bondo :-) Use any good brand name, the new ones with "micro spheres" are probably the best. If you strip the car to metal, & have the money to spend, go ahead & put one good thick (not reduced) coat of epoxy on it. If not, grind ALL the paint off of the areas that need filling back several inches beyond the dented area. You do not want bondo over anything but bare metal (or fiberglass) or epoxy primer - no exceptions! Sand the bondo with 40 grit to start with. When you've got it just about right, finish with 80 grit. Use a flat block on the flat areas & whatever it takes on the rounded contours. Any block that fits your hand & the sandpaper will work. On "outside" rounded areas the flat block will work if you "roll" it over the surface diagonally at 45 degrees in both directions. On inside curves, use a flexable pad or peice of PVC - things like that. Always change directions when sanding, & try not to sand in a straight line. 4) Priming/blocking. Once you're finished with the filler, prime it. I again use a coat of epoxy & then two or three coats if needed of high-build primer on the areas that were worked. *Very important* - give the primer several days if you can to completely dry before blocking. Spray some black "guide coat" paint (flat black laquer works well) over the primed areas in a very light mist. Don't try to cover the surface, just let a light mist fall on it. Block the primer using a block or if you can find one a good paint paddle. For large flat areas, Home Depot has some 5-gallon paddles that work well, On smaller areas & rounded surfaces a regular paddle works well if you can find a flat/straight one. The smaller one will flex a little, allowing you to put pressure where you need it (on the high spots & rounded surfaces) to knock the surface down. Wrap the full sheet of paper around the paddle & tear off two sides as the paper wears out. Start with 180 grit - wet if you can, with a trickle flowing over the surface as you sand. Finish with 220 to 320 grit. The high/low spots will become apparent as soon as you start sanding using the guide coat. Block everything untill it's smooth - all the guide coat will be gone. One thing to remember: when initially trying to flatten an apparent low spot, you have to sand the entire area around it down to where that surface is - you don't actually sand the spot that's not smooth untill the area around it is down. If an area is too low to block out (you start to hit metal), use a catalyst-hardened putty to fill it. I use Fiberglass Evercoat (brand name) I think it's #406. Re-prime the blocked areas. If needed, block & re-prime again. Again let the primer dry. 5) If everything looks good, it should be ready to sand & shoot. Sand with 400 or 500 wet (500 for base-clear). On older cars that have rubber around the glass, you can usually use 1/8 inch rope under the edge of the rubber to hold up the rubber & paint under it. Size of rope depends on the car/rubber. If 1/8 dissapears, use larger. *Very important* - clean the surface with wax & grease remover as mentioned above. Shoot the paint. 6) For a *nice* clear-coat finish, sand with 1000 or 1200 grit wet using a firm "sponge pad". On rounded areas, a softer sponge pad works well. They're available at the auto paint store (or should be). Buff with a "micro-finishing" compound & polish/clean with a product for new paint (foam polishing pad glaze). Don't paste wax until the paint has dried a *least* a month.
Hows that? ;^p Any questions? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
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What kind of paint gun (and how big a compressor) would you recommend for a newbie to use?

*minimum*
paint
coat
some
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the paint gun you want really depends on the paint your going to use I use a Sata jet 90 that works well with most paints but is a $400 to $500 dollr gun. I would recomend buying a cheaper gun from the store you buy your paint they should be able to give you tips on useing them. (they all taken the guns home to paint their cars in there home garages with some nice resalts I'm sure)
And as far as the compressor goes the bigger you can afford the better. Its hard to get good paint jobs if your air pressor changes alot and harder useing a cheap spray gun.
Mario
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a newbie to use? ************ You should be able to pick up a Sharpe gun fairly reasonable. More expensive than the Wallmart import cheap crap but less than the Develbiss or Binks. I would say you could get by with any compressor around 3hp up. Also get a regulator for the inlet on the gun. You can usually adjust your spraying technique to make up for the gun & compressor; believe it or not my first overall paint job was done using a canister-type *vacum cleaner* & the little sprayer that came with it! Turned out to be a nearly flawless paint job! This was when acrylic enamel first came out... (1969?) Make sure to get a water trap & put it inline away from the compressor. HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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